Inside our private membership community for moms, The Grow, we have our own internal podcast / live stream called The Shroom Room. We have frequent conversations with experts, M.O.M. Team Members, and Grow Members about topics that bubble up inside our community. Each conversation is live streamed so that our community can participate in the conversation with questions and feedback if they wish. It's not overly produced, it's not on any schedule. It's just a flowing conversation, straight from the heart.
While these episodes are archived exclusively for our members, sometimes there are episodes that are just too good to gatekeep, like this conversation with Dr. Pamela Kryskow. We somehow, in just one hour, manage to explore the whole gamut of psychedelic use in our modern society - especially as it pertains to women and mothers, while dissecting what is causing the mental health crisis in the West, while coming back time and again to why the safe, sacred application of psychedelics just may be the healing tool we've all been searching for...and it's been here all along.
Please enjoy this public showcase of our very private podcast, and do share it with any friends or family who might be curious enough to find value in the conversation.
Scroll past the video for show notes and links mentioned in this episode.
Links:
Roots to Thrive | website | IG
PMDD x MICRODISING Study (seeking participants) | info & links
Join The Grow - the largest psychedelic mom's group on the planet | info
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT - Shroom Room w/ Dr. Pamela Kryskow
[00:36] Intro: Dr. Kryskow & Her Background
Tracey 00:00:36
So With that, I'm just going to start firing off questions. But first, Dr. Kryskow, I would love for you to just give us a little background of your long history in the field of psychedelics of research, how you're working with people now. Yeah, we'll start there.
[00:56] Dr. Kryskow’s Background
Pam 00:00:56
Okay, so Tracey, it's really fun to be here!
So, I've been working researching for quite a while, but mostly like if I kind of just look at the fancy hats that I wear, which aren't that fancy, but yeah, so I'm a medical doctor. I really started bringing psychedelic medicine into my practice, into my chronic pain practice, noticing that you know… we get a lot of people very well very quickly get rid of the pain, but then there is a whole other segment of folks I was working with that it was clearly emotional pain combined with physical pain both real pains real physical pain, but more on the emotional side.
And that You know the therapies we use weren't quite cutting it and so looking at bringing psychedelic therapy and to help with the fibromyalgia is the chronic fatigue syndromes, the stuff that is really most likely as we now much more easily know. It's probably trauma related or early childhood things or grief or just, you know, stuff semantically held in the body.
And so that's what brought it into the medical practice, of course, in my personal life for a very, very long time, like many, many people, but sometimes You don't get to keep yourself all together as a whole human when you're a physician. And so now be a whole human is the personal and the professional meld very nicely.
[02:26] Dr. Kryskow & Roots to Thrive
Pam 00:02:26
And so, I am the medical lead on Roots to Thrive, which is a nonprofit program that does psychedelic assisted therapies in Canada and British Columbia. We kept ourselves a nonprofit because we didn't want shareholders. We wanted all the money to go back into the program for scholarships. Access is really important for us.
Yeah, that we turn no one away. And so we are able to work with ketamine. We work with psilocybin mushrooms and psilocybin botanically extracted and we work with MDMA all legally. So we have to get special exemptions from Health Canada. It takes a lot of paperwork, but we get them. And so that's one hat I wear.
[02:04] Dr. Kryskow & The Psychedelic Association of Canada
Pam 00:02:04
Another hat I wear is a founding board member of the Psychedelic Association of Canada, which is Canada's coast to coast kind of umbrella organization for all things, psychedelic research, professional, underground arts, culture, sexuality, everything. We have this, the big tent for everyone to come together to have this place of where people can speak and learn about psychedelics and all the different ways they're used.
And we recently did a fundraiser there to help fund the preservation of the Maria Sabina archives in Mexico. So reciprocity is a big part of it for us. Like, how can we give back and keep a circle of giving going.
[03:49] Dr. Kryskow & Vancouver Island University
Pam 00:03:49
And then another hat I wear is, as the medical chair of the postgraduate certificate in psychedelic assisted therapy at Vancouver Island University, which is Canada's only one year long program in psychedelic medicine that brings together doctors, nurses, indigenous knowledge keepers.
Um, clergy, social workers, occupational therapists, physiotherapists, um, underground therapists, all together in a university learning system where people are all learning. Together from each other and moving together in teams, and so I get to do all that.
[04:25] Dr. Kryskow as a Researcher
Pam 00:04:25
And then as a researcher, we, the research, which is, I think, how we more connected with the microdose.me studies where we have, I think, 33, almost 34, 000 people now enrolled.
In that study following people all over the world on how they're using microdosing for either treating symptoms, uh, disease states or wellness or creativity. So that's what those are all the fancy hats I wear.
[04:52] Dr. Kryskow IRL
Pam 00:04:52
And then in real life, I love gardening. I'm a kayaker and I love being in the forest. I'm a forager for mushrooms.
[04:59] What is PMDD?
Tracey 00:04:59
Amazing. So just a few things, just doing a few things with your time, Yeah. Um, well, uh, gosh, I could just, we could just talk about chronic pain and maybe we can weave that in. So you and I connected with your desire to start collecting data to do microdosing. So why don't you just share a little bit about why you want to do this study?
What is PMDD? And what you've seen in your practice, um, around psilocybin and women's health in particular.
[05:41] How Tracey & Dr. Kryskow Connected & How the PMDD Study was Formed
Pam 00:05:41
Yeah. So, well, it started out with the microdose.me study. So what we did is we launched version 1. And what I love about citizen scientists of that people that were enrolling is they were emailing us and saying, “Hey, what about this condition?”, “Where am I?”, “I'm microdosing for this”, “What about this?” “What about this?” And we're a lean in group of researchers.
So we're like, yeah, so meeting with all sorts of folks. And so that we could make version 1.2 better versions 1. 3 better than version 2 better.
And we kept adding in questions. We got better questions around sexuality. We got better questions around women's health. And we didn't really have, honestly, like, not because we were obtuse, but we just didn't know how widely people, yeah, microdosing and for how many things at PMDD. So, premenstrual dysphoria disorder kept coming up and that this was saving people's lives.
[06:40] What PMDD is like
Pam 00:06:40
And so, as you know, but just in case, like, that people don't know. So it's a more severe form of premenstrual syndrome. And it often combines both elements of our health, like mental health and wellness and physical.
So you, you get the challenges like the depression, you can get the anxiety, irritability, anger, suicidal ideation. That's the one that really caught me I don't, as a medical doctor, I don't ever remember hearing that like 30 percent of women with PMDD contemplate suicide. And that just grabbed me.
And I was like, “What!?” This is not, this cannot be tolerated. Like, it's too important. We cannot have 30 percent of women that having not being, not being looked after. And, I think, you know, to give doctors a bit of a break, like we are just shoving data into our heads all through our training, all through our residency.
Like there's not a moment of non learning happening and the reality is humans are complex, and there's a lot. And if you don't happen to have it really well taught in your program or you don't, you can miss it, and you just like being taught any other. Challenge that humans deal with. So then there's also the physical symptoms, there's bloating, there's cramping, there's headaches, there's migraines, there's nausea.
Um, changes in sleep, there's just such a huge constellation and in fact, working with you, Tracy and and when we started talking about doing a separate completely specific survey on what exactly is happening, like, what exactly are the symptoms? And I think our symptom list is like 30
Tracey 00:08:25
it's long
Pam 00:08:26
it's long
Tracey 00:08:27
Yeah
Pam 00:08:28
And people, and we also want to say, like, you know, there are just some things that just are humans have and may not be related to something else, but you still include it all.
Tracey 00:08:37
Yeah
Pam 00:08:37
If you look through the trends
[08:40] PMDD & PMS
Tracey 00:08:40
Yeah, so yeah, for, so that's a kind of a question I have. Like, what is the intersection of PMS and PMDD?
And then what is to be expected in terms of just symptoms that you have before your period, you know. I mean, I, as someone who's had a lifelong history of stage four endometriosis and probably PMDD from like, you know, the eighties or whatever. I started to have my period. Maybe that was the nineties, but like, you know, for a long time, I was just, I was always on the high end of just horrible periods.
And my personal just sort of research, you know, there's a school of thought that's like, no woman should have any symptoms before her period. Like you shouldn't have cramps. You shouldn't, you should just bleed. And it's just part of your thing, but I don't really know anyone that has that. That's just like no symptoms.
So what is that intersection?
Pam 00:09:31
There are
Tracey 00:09:32
Oh, There are? Okay, yeah. I’m so Jealous!
Pam 00:09:34
Yeah, there, there are definitely. And why, why we're still learning.
Tracey 00:09:38
Yeah.
Pam 00:09:39
You know, I think there's, there's an element of obviously lifestyle. Like you know,
Tracey 00:09:43
Yeah.
Pam 00:09:44
If, if for instance, you know, if you're, if you have a lot of allergies, seasonal allergy, or it can be a lot more intense at that time and not so intense at other times, of course, stress and neural inflammation are going to make a difference to what you're experiencing.
Uh, possibly it's, it's a, also a genetic component, or is it just that certain things run in families. You know that some families are really anxious and some families maybe don't eat the best, maybe some families don't exercise like it's complex and I wouldn't want to say, oh, sorry that I think it's like a, it's like, there's so many constellations for each person of mixtures of it that I, over time, I think we'll start to tease it apart a bit more.
And the nice thing about working with like microdosing psilocybin is it hits so many receptors. It does so many things that, you know, maybe if we have something that's effective over time, maybe we'll figure out the mechanism of action and the reality of most things, whether it's herbs or vitamins or prescription medicines, we do not 100 percent know the mechanism of action.
It's because we can't follow, for instance, magnesium from the mouth through the, through the human body and go, Oh, we can't, we don't get to actually see it.
Tracey 00:11:05
Like “Ah! There it is! That's where the kick kicks in!” Yeah.
Pam 00:11:08
We just don't have that technology yet.
So what we do is we use these proxies of cells. Like we watch cells.In dishes and we, and then are we give it to animals and then we see where it is in their body on autopsy. So, so I always invite people to say, you know, it's okay to let go of the need to know exactly why, as long as it's working and it's safe, you know, because we, most of the need are most of the mechanism of action is unknown or is radical.
And then when you like going back to the real question that you had is like these constellations, like why some women get it and some people don't. And what's the difference between the two?
[11:50] PMS vs PMDD
Pam 00:11:50
So PMS tends to be something that you would consider, like, tolerable and, and, you know, you get some cramping, but a couple ibuprofen sorted out and you're fine.
Or you're, you know, maybe you're irritable and your partner is like, “Oh, I think you're about to start your menstrual cycle because you just bit my head off” and you're like “yeah, right.” But it's tolerable it's like, I know it's happening, I can function at work or maybe I take a day off or, you know, I get some help, you know, my, the mom comes, well, it takes care of the kids while I go to the in the hammock for the day or something like that but it’s tolerable.
Whereas PMDD moves it into where it really is impacting daily functioning. So, and what does that mean for, I mean, and that again is a spectrum for someone. It could be something that one woman would say that impacts your functioning. Whereas somebody else. So, again, it's a little bit of, it is a diagnosis based on how many checkboxes you check off. So the severity is very individual. So what is severe to one person may be minor to another. So the PMDD means that people are consistently getting it and just usually mostly in the one to two weeks prior.
Tracey 00:13:05
Yeah.
Pam 00:13:06
And since starts, but not for everyone, which is why this survey is so interesting is I think we're going to really see, um, As the numbers click up and we get more information like, okay, most people are getting their symptoms here and most people are getting these symptoms, but look at there's also some women that are getting something here and then we're not clumping it all together.
Tracey 00:13:28
Yeah.
Pam 00:13:30
It's all one thing when it really isn't like there's oh there's this. And there's this and then we can, what I love about science and medicine and like herbs and vitamins is that maybe we can really figure out, oh, if this is your constellation if this is what you're, you know, Dealing with them.
This is a better routine for you. And if this is what you're having, like not shove everybody into the pharma model, which-
Tracey 00:13:54
One size fits all. Yeah.
Pam 00:13:55
Oh Yeah, You're depressed. Here's the pill.
Tracey 00:13:59
Right
Pam 00:14:00
How about what type of depression and when does your depression come on? And-
Tracey 00:14:03
Yes
Pam 00:14:04
Right. So yeah. Nuance is where, where we're all moving towards is like not a hammer, but like choices.
Tracey 00:14:12
Choices! Well, that's beautiful. I want to circle back to something you said about, you know, as long as it's working and it's safe, which, you know, is a big conversation in the microdosing world because we don't have this science that everyone is like demanding to, you know, Prove that microdosing works.
And so those of us who are kind of like advocating for the, you know, certainly the legalization of it, but the, you know, allowing humans to make their own choices and apply this to their life in a safe manner, without like these longitudinal studies that like you're just describing are almost impossible to really capture because like, how could you level set every factor in a micro dosing study to say like, well, then “this is the thing.”
And to that point on learning the idea that it has to be this one size fits all, like, then we're just like the hammer comes down and it's like, okay, everyone takes 50 milligrams of this at this time. And everything's going to be okay for everyone, Is it realistic?
[15:16] Dr Kryskow’s Take On Microdosing Magic Mushrooms
Tracey 00:15:16
So how do you justify in the microdosing space?
And what is your take on microdosing? Specifically? It's safety, It's efficacy, What have you seen? What do you believe? What do you see for the future?
Pam 00:15:29
Yeah. Well, and…those are, that's a lot of questions.
Tracey 00:15:34
I know
(both laughs)
Pam 00:15:35
Okay. Um, I, we, it's always everything in life, Is risk benefit, right? We all get in a car, but not all, but most of us get in a car and take the risk for the benefit, right?
So. We need to approach medicine and what we use is the same way. I think, you know, now if there's something there that says this is, this is dangerous, but we need that usually shows up in the science pretty quickly.
Tracey 00:16:02
Okay
Pam 00:16:03
And then progresses through. So, when we look at a medicine that's coming to market. You know, it has to go through toxicology. It has to go through cellular toxicology. It has to go through organelles. It has to go through rodents, mini pigs, primates. Like you get a signal of, uh, if there's something really going on right away. So most of the dangerous stuff never makes it to market
Tracey 00:16:26
Okay
Pam 00:16:27
Mostly.
And then you get your post marketing stuff. There's always things that are going to slip through because we're humans.
Tracey 00:16:32
Okay
Pam 00:16:33
…Make mistakes. And we just have to accept that and let people off the hook a bit. You know, we're a pretty like. attacking society and that's not anyone. So we need to step back and go, okay, how did, how did this mistake get made?
Or how was this missed? And in something like microdosing. So it's, there's so many permutations is so many. So what I mean by that is, you know, there are over 200 psilocybin containing mushrooms in the world that we know of so far, more being discovered, which species. Is it, when was it grown and harvested?
Was it grown and harvested by somebody who really knows what they're doing? Or is it somebody that's just an economic opportunist and trying to make money? And now, and they're just growing crappy mushrooms with bacterial contamination. Those, those are, those are things that matter that add, add to the complexity.And then there's different mushrooms have different, uh, percentages. Of different constituents like there's in some mushrooms, there's up to 2000 different constituents, and they're all in a different percentage. Right? So, like, nature is complex and then you look at the complexity of the human.
Tracey 00:17:50
Right!
Pam 00:17:51
Right? So now you've got 2000 constituents in a mushroom. However, many constituents you want to take in a human. And you're going, Oh, what is the definitive reduction,
Tracey 00:17:59
Right!
Pam 00:18:00
like, come on, like, that's insane.
Tracey 00:18:03
Right.
Pam 00:18:04
So what you have to do is just speak to that complexity saying “this is a complex thing.” And this is what, when we look at the safety, this is what we think.
Is happening and we keep adding data. And if we get new data that changes our mind, we say we thought this before and now we have to pivot this way. And this is what really messed people up in Covid, is not understanding science advances every time there's a new piece of information.
So on Monday, we thought this, but we got new information.
So on Friday, we have to pivot and say, This is what we now know. That's how science advances, right?
Tracey 00:18:39
Right.
Pam 00:18:40
You keep adding how we grow as humans. You know, we see things, we learn things, we keep advancing. We're, we don't have the same belief system when you're five years old as we do now. Right.
Tracey 00:18:48
One would help. I mean, yeah.
Pam 00:18:50
yeah, we have advanced our knowledge. And so it's just this, right. And so. It's these big longitudinal prospective observational studies like the microdose.me study.
Tracey 00:19:00
Yeah.
Pam 00:19:01
It helps us see what are the trend lines. Oh, it looks like cyanescens is helping more for cluster headaches. Oh, it looks like, I mean, I'm just making up stuff right now.
So these are just…
Tracey 00:19:12
Okay, Everyone's like writing it down.
Pam 00:19:14
No, these are fictitious examples.
Tracey 00:19:16
Yeah.
Pam 00:19:16
Oh, and it looks like Cubensis may be more helpful for this, this schedule. And so what's really challenging and for people that haven't done a clinical trial, like clinical trials, just the way they're set up, you have to really be reductionist.
Tracey 00:19:30
Yeah.
Pam 00:19:31
Like does this cause this? And so you don't get to test for all these other things because it would be a trillion dollar study.
Tracey 00:19:38
And it would be, you have to like lock everyone in a room and everyone would have to eat the same thing, drink the same thing, weigh the same, have the same hormonal patterns, like everything.
Pam 00:19:48
Yeah. And we're never going to get that. So we just have to go.
Tracey 00:19:50
Yeah.
Pam 00:19:51
That's, and that's, that's what happens in everything, right? That's why one supplement works for somebody and doesn't do anything for someone else. That's why one medication helps somebody's blood pressure and doesn't help somebody else's because the complexity of that person.
[20:02] Some Facts About Psilocybe Cubensis
Tracey 00:20:02
And there's still commonalities, right? So not to be reductionist, but what are some truths on let's just focus on psilocybe cubensis, because that's like the one that everyone's kind of working with the most right now.
What are some common truths that you see in this space for most people? And, or maybe let's even like reduce it a little bit more for most women potentially.
Pam 00:20:23
What we're seeing is it seems to be safe.
Tracey 00:20:28
Yeah.
[20:29] “Picked on” Date & Potency of Cubensis
Pam 00:20:29
It seems to be, um, very, women seem, obviously women figure out their regime, they figure out when they need it and how much they need and, and the dosing is very, very variable. But it's also, especially with Cubensis though, because the one thing women should be asking if they're wherever they're getting their mushrooms is they should be, they should, there should be a picked on date.
Tracey 00:20:55
Yeah. Yes!
Pam 00:20:56
You need to know what date those mushrooms were harvested because they start to lose their potency.
Tracey 00:21:02
Yup.
Pam 00:21:04
And so you need to know they were picked on this day, they were air dried and I'm getting them on this day. Now you can do the math and go, okay, well they probably lost 10 percent because they're a year old or they've lost 20 percent or, you know, so.
People out there got have to start putting that information on, you know, these were, these were harvested on this. This is the way we preserve them. We dried them by air drying. We, are we dehydrated them or we heat or we, or, or, or right. Those sorts of things matter too.
Right? So that's why you're gonna have the variability, but we do know if you know, like, if you've got fresh Cubensis that have just been air dried, they're probably going to be at the highest potency they'll ever be that you'll need less there. Whereas if you're still working through that jar, if you happen to grind them up yourself and you have a jar, then maybe in a year's time, if you still have them and you're using them, you're going to need a little bit more.
Tracey 00:21:54
And by potency, you're talking about actual percentage of the psilocin that's inside. And that's what converts in our bodies. And that's what actually creates affects the change.
[22:06] Psilocybin Mushrooms and The Efficacy of its other Constituents
Pam 00:22:06
Well, that's great that you're asking this because we know that that's part of it, but the other constituents do things too. Like Baeocystin, we think, is an anti anxiety, and that's also in psilocybin mushrooms. Right?
Tracey 00:22:22
Okay
Pam 00:22:22
So it's, it's a complexity of nature that may be doing these things. So we give all, right now we're giving all the credit to the, Psilocin…
Tracey 00:22:30
To the Psilocin…yeah
Pam 00:22:31
We're giving it all to that. And there's also all these other constituents. So over time we'll be able to probably tease out, but doesn't matter. 'cause you know, the whole mushroom helps.
Right?
Tracey 00:22:42
Right.
Pam 00:22:43
We're giving it all to that. And there's also all these other constituents. So over time we'll be able to probably tease out, but it doesn't matter. 'cause you know, the whole mushroom helps.
Right. Right. Over time, we'll figure it out. We'll figure out, Oh, maybe, maybe for, um, if, if your, if your PMDD is more on the anxiety side, then you want a mushroom that has more Baeocystin. Maybe we'll figure that out.
Maybe that'll be a truth in the future. I don't know yet, but the thing is it's about what we do know is like I said, it's, if it's a very safe medicine, women can easily titrate effectiveness, you know it’s synergistic. You know, you add in Lion’s Mane mycelium, you add in Niacin that you don’t need as much psilocybin mushrooms, it’s synergistic. So you can have lower, which is nice 'cause you can put in the lowest effective dose.
[23:30] Dr. Kryskow on the Philosophy of “More is Better” in Medicine
Yeah. This is not a more, is more type thing.
No, no, not at all. And, and that's, and, and you know, this “more is more” is interesting because in our body, everything is at like physiological levels. And I'll give you an example. So melatonin in our body is very, very low. in micro, yet you go to the health food store and you buy your melatonin, it's like 10 milligrams.
This philosophy of more is better. 10 milligrams is a massive dose compared to MG micrograms. So when melatonin first came on the market, it was all in micrograms and now it's in milligrams. And I think like, you know, crushed that you're melatonin tablet, a tiny bit of it because that's how much your body uses, right?
So more is not necessarily better. Our body uses micronutrients. Our body uses micro bits of vitamins and minerals. And so, and isn't it nice that you can then do even this bigger complexity of like lion's mane, mycelium with all of. It's constituents and psilocybin cubensis with all of its constituents.
And then all of that synergized even better with flushing niacin there. So we know that that is, you know, is likely going to be very beneficial for conditions beyond PMDD, but so it's, it's like that when it's going to be one of the cheapest treatments in the world for this. And people will be able to, women will be able to say, “I need this amount”, you know, the 7 days before my period starts and then I'm golden for the rest of the month, or I'm a microdoser every 2nd day.
So, um, so really your question is like, what do we know to be true? Like, what is true across the board? Well,
it's safe.
It's safe.
[25:25] Microdosing & Valvulopathy and Evaluating the Risks vs Benefits for Anything We Do In Life
I mean, the one thing that comes up is this valvulopathy thing, but we know we have gone down this rabbit hole on this so, so many times.
Is that the heart?
Yeah. Yeah. The fibrosis.
And you know, I, I think if we, you know, it'll take a long time to figure out if that is a thing and the, the, what settles me for that is if it's going to take a long time to find out if it's a thing, then it's not a high risk likely. And we should start seeing it because so many people like there are millions of people across that are microdosing.
Yeah,
We're not seeing it.
Well, and everything I've read and again, this is just my non-scientist brain everything I've read. It's either associated with also taking MDMA or you have an existing heart condition that it's exacerbating.
Am I understanding that correctly? Or?
Yeah, well, I haven't, I mean, the thing is like how I haven't seen it and neither have any of my cardiologist colleagues.
You haven't seen it like across the board. You haven't seen patients with it, presenting with it. Okay.
We have not seen it. And, and I know most of the microdosing studies are now adding in echocardiograms.
And so they're, if it's going to show up, they're going to see it and they're not. And as far as we know, we're not, it's not showing up. Um, and, and the, the interesting thing is in medicine, somebody will postulate a theory and that's all this was, it was,
it was, yes,
it was like, “I wonder if”, and then everybody repeats it and then it becomes a truth, but it's not a truth.
It's, it's a, it was a “musing”, like, and you know, when I talk to Pharm, like, you know, people that really know pharmacokinetics. Pharmacists that really do the deep dive and you sit there and you look at it and you compare it to all the other medications that act on the same receptors. And we're like, we're not seeing valvulopathy with them.
Okay, so I'm not so personally, I'm not worried. And I think even if there is a potential risk of valvulopathy. 30 percent suicidal ideation is a much bigger risk.
Seriously.
Right. So yeah, if, if a mom is now engaged with her kids or her partner or her life or whatever
or all of the above,
all of the above and is happier, then you're always taking that risk benefit. We do that with everything. Like I said, it goes back to the car. You take the risk of a car accident to go play soccer with all your friends because the benefit is so great.
Right.
Or to go Camping with your family. We take these risk benefits. So just put it in that. And we don't, we don't eliminate things from our life because of the risk. Like we still jump out of airplanes. We still fly in airplanes,
We still drink alcohol!
We still drink alcohol. We still do all these things. The main thing is like, I want, and that's your autonomy. That's your ability to say, I'm going to weigh the risks and benefits. And if I am happy and I'm not crampy and I'm not irritable and I'm out having a good time in my life and I'm not missing work days, which is affecting my income, then this is a good choice.
And we know that the myths and the misinformation that's been funneled into our society for the last 50 years is not true. Like, your brain is not going to drip out your ear. You're, you know, you're not likely to have a psychotic break unless you have a history, you know, like, there are also fundamental truths that are that you can rely on to say that this is safe. Can you speak to that? Or
Yeah, well, and, and that's the nice thing about the epidemiology scientists. In our midst, right, they look at these long term things, like, for instance, like, cannabis was 1 where, like, oh, you know, cannabis and psychosis is really going to well in Canada was a great. Was a great example of looking at that, like, we legalize cannabis federally in 2018 earlier than that for medicinal reasons and we did not see schizophrenia go up.
The baseline levels of schizophrenia stayed the same, you know, that data is published by people that are much smarter in that area than I am. But that's, that's good long term data.
Yeah.
[29:44] Focusing Energy on the Real “Blips” Causing our Mental Health Crisis
So we don't see these blips. Right. But here's a blip that, you know, social media, 2012. What do we see? We see anxiety going through the roof, depression going through the roof, Women & girls cutting going through the roof, eating disorders going through the roof, right?
So if we really want to focus harm in our society, we're going to kill social media is what we're going to do. And we're going to hold those people accountable. For the harms to society so like, if you know when we got to put, we got to put things in perspective before you go after microdosing. Let's shut down the algorithms of social media.
Right.
That, that are truly killing people that are actually killing people that are,
yeah, verifiably. Yeah.
Verifiably. Killing people. Hurting people. I thought when I went into medicine, I thought I was in the age of less doctors like I thought, you know what we're all…
Oh, interesting.
In a history of healing. We're on a trip. Like people are getting better. People get it. They got to eat better. You got to exercise. You got, there's lots of, there's pharmaceuticals are great where they're needed and wellness is great. Where it's like, everything is welcome. Wellness is welcome. I thought I was going to be out of business. I was like, yay, I'll be in a kayak for the rest of my life
And, social media has changed that like mental health, all of that. Like we're just seeing it, it going up, like resiliency is going down. So all the moms out there. Take the phones away from your kids, give them a flip phone, agree, get all of the families together and say, flip phones until 16…That's it. You got it. We got to take it back. Like seriously. But anyways, that, that's just, that, that just, I bring that up because it's a perspective of if we're worried about harm in society, then let's go for the harm.
Let's go for the harm! Yes!
And moms can do that. Moms have so much power. Like, take it back and start leading because, and then the micro and so much of this, even like with the microdosing, I bet you, we would see less women needing microdosing. Although I don't care. I think it's, I think that you can use it for wellness and creativity as well, too. You have the right to your own consciousness to do with what you want.
a hundred percent.
But if your anxiety is down, if your inflammation is down because you feel happy and safe, and you're not worried about your teenager being texting with some predator or cutting because she's not, you know, five pounds, you know, all that stuff. Like, I think we would see this drop down too.
Well that, I love that you said that because the first thing I ever said when I started mom, was that I hope I'm out like you. I hope I go one day that MOM is not needed, that I go, I'm out of business.
Because you've microdosed you've worked through the things. You've created a relationship with this medicine. It's an ally in your life for the rest of your life. Because it can be a lifelong ally. It's not gonna, well you can confirm this, but my understanding is that, you know, it's not gonna age you faster or make you, um, deteriorate faster as you age. In fact, it can help that stuff. Yeah.
But then you don't need, you don't need to, you don't need anybody. You can just do it when you need to round of antibiotics for intrusive thoughts and we don't need people harping on why it should be a, you know, accessible to people.
Totally. And it's gonna change. It's gonna change, it's gonna change quickly. So I think it's really important too for people to like, to take the lead.
Yeah.
And, I mean, I'm in Canada, you guys are mostly in the US but you just need to say to your representatives, this is what we want.
Yeah.
You represent me, You are not a monarchy, you are not a dictator. This is what we want. And they need to hear from you on both sides of the aisle.
Yeah.
If you're gonna call one representative, call the other and call the others, all of them and say, “this needs to be funded, this needs to be available.” And you're right.
[33:45] Microdosing When You Need It
Like, you know what I love about Microdosing too, is, you know, people use it when they need it.
Yeah.
And then if you don't need it, you don't. And then if you're like, oh man, my mood's been a little low. And I have, I have just as you have, as you have seen, like, I've had so many people come and say, you know, I was, my word finding was going older. My older patient.
Yeah.
I was starting to lose my words. I was like, “what's that word?” Start microdosing. It's back. I feel short
and Lion's Mane.
[34:13] Dissecting the Fruiting Body vs Mycelium Debate
Yeah, well, the, and the whole, the like the mycelium Lion's Mane mycelium, the Cubensis, or any whatever, psilocybin mushrooms and then the nice and definitely are great and then others are sprinkling in other mushrooms. But with the other mushrooms, what's really important and empowering is knowing like different mushrooms, you wanna use different parts.
It's not Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah. I wanted, 'cause you keep saying Lion’s Mane mycelium, and I haven't really heard that before because it's always about the fruiting bodies.
No, it's not. See, and that's, see that's the challenge. Is there's, you really have to know what part has the evidence. So Lion's Mane Fruit Body has had a number of clinical trials that actually shows it diminishes cognition. Whereas Lion's Mane mycelium has a number of studies, clinical studies, trials, and mostly this is from our, like a Japanese and Korean Scientists who have been, you know, working
with it for a billion years.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it's the Lion's Mane mycelium.
Okay.
That has known to increase cognition, to decrease dementia, to decrease neuroinflammation. So you need to know, so when people are out there, oh, you need fruit bodies, they don't know what they're talking about. What you need to know is when, what part of the mushroom do you need for what?So reishi is the fruit body.
Mm-Hmm. Right.
Lion's mane, it's the mycelium. Now, if you're gonna have the fruit body, it's a great culinary delight, you know?
Yeah. It's delicious. Yeah. It's great.
But, but don't microdose, like, don't be taking lion's main fruit body because the studies show it doesn't do what you want.
[35:50] The Fruiting Body & The Mycelium
Now the thing that people need to know about the difference is like the fruit body is the reproductive part. Right. It comes up for a short period of time to Spore to spread its progeny so that it can go far and wide and then it, and then it rots, it starts rotting quite quickly. Then melts, it goes back into the earth. The mycelium is resident.
It is forever. Yeah.
And it is immunologically strong because it is in the trees. Like in the bark, it's going, the trees, it's in, it's, it's attached to the roots. It's in the soils where it's constantly in interaction with other microbes. And it's constantly transferring nutrients and information and it's immunologically stronger. So, and there's way more constituents. So when you take, you know, if you took the same amount of mass of Reishi mycelium and the same amount of Reishi fruit body, there's way more stuff happening in the mycelium.
Really? I mean, I feel like that's opposite of what I've been hearing lately that everyone's like, you know, and especially in going back to Cubensis, that the mycelium is the junk in that it's the fruiting bodies.
That's the potency, you know, that has the Psilocin and just the, the effectiveness.
Well see that that's where people need to know, know their mushrooms and not
Yeah.
So like, you want, you wanna get your information from scientists, right? Not from the frat boys growing the mushrooms, which who don't know anything. Um, because they're in that age range, like the 16 to 25, 30-year-old men are, that's the age range of I know everything and they know nothing. And then they turn 40 and they start to realize what a bunch of crap it was. So
What is it about turning 40?
It is like, it literally is the age of enlightenment. We could talk about that later. It's amazing.
Especially for men. Absolutely. Like they're know-it-alls young, and then they get their humility.
They get older and realize how little they knew and how testosterone driven they were there. But, so in Cubensis, absolutely. You want the fruit body.
Okay.
Fruit Body is a spiritual part. And there are types of mushrooms like psilocybin containing mushrooms where the psilocybin is in mycelium.
Mm.
It's about knowing, again, with somebody that knows what you want. So that's the Sclerotia.
Okay.
And that's what is commonly used in the Netherlands. So Tampanensis
Yes. And like, the truffle.
Exactly.
Which is the only thing that's legal in the Netherlands
Yeah. But it's not really a truffle, it's actually mycelium, it's actually called. Right. It's called the truffle but the fruit body is not, is not legal. You can only sell and purchase the mycelium.
That happens to be one of the psilocybin containing mushrooms where the psilocybin is in the mycelium.
Oh. So it's actually like a good thing.
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like it's, it's like a law that's actually in the favor of the consumer.
In this case, it was something that slipped in and because of tourism, they'll never change it, which is good.
Totally.
Um, but yeah. So each mushroom needs to be looked at and go, “where is the benefit?” You know? So chaga, you know, chaga is in the mushroom con. That's the part you want. Right? So it's not an all or none. So if anyone is ever saying, you, you a hundred percent need the fruit body, or you a hundred percent need the mycelium, they're not, they're not science from, like, they don't know anything about mushrooms basically. What you wanna do is know what part of what, like Turkey tail, Turkey tail, it's all mycelium. Right? So if you want, if the data around around breast cancer and Turkey tail, it's all mycelium.
Mm.
Right? So you need to know, and again, like ignore the frat boys 'cause they don't really know what they're talking about. and, and they, they won't have the humility to say they were wrong for a very long time.
And if it's in a birthday cake flavored candy bar, it's probably not even freaking psilocybin.
Well, and that's a good, that actually here's a harm reduction thing for your, for your audience is, you know, a lot of people are now moving like Amanitas (Amanita Muscara) and because they're legal.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I mean, I know a lot about mushrooms and I would not take Amanitas.
Yeah.
I was like, what is the point? I mean, what is like there is not, you know, it alters the colors, but you're not gonna meet God or universal consciousness if you're gonna do macrodose.
Right.
But you Well, I've heard you like, shouldn't you shouldn't kill yourself.
Yeah. Like, you shouldn't do macro. I've, I mean, I have heard a lot of people have had success, especially with anxiety that Amanitas and sleep insomnia that Amanitas has been really,
But they got to note like,
Gotta get it the right.
[41:02] Why We Need to Learn Proper Mushroom Identification
And they got, and I would say to them, join a local mushroom foraging group. Learn proper mushroom identification, harvest your own medicine. Because what they, there was a study that mushrooms bought off of Amazon, not directly from the company, were mixed and often contained poisonous mushrooms.So bags of mushrooms that
Oh, bags like a bag of mushrooms.
Okay.
A bag of different mushrooms.
And even, and this is the challenge right now when we're in this, in-between stage because for like the medicinal mushrooms, like the that are actually have gone through what's considered CGMP “certified good manufacturing process” and are inspected by the FDA, you know, what's in the bottles in the bottle.
Okay.
And if over here you can have somebody that is just powdering up a whole bunch of stuff they picked up when they're out in the forest and shoving it in a bottle and making some money. So it really is a super buyer beware. So if you are getting mushrooms from someone, you wanna be able to see them, you wanna be able to see like, oh, they, they are bruising blue. There is a blue for them. If you did a spore print, that they are purpley brown. Not, not rusty brown. Like, you wanna know that they're not a Deadly Galerina, that they're actually a psilocybin mushroom.
Right.
So, you know, and that's what I love about, you know, you can grow your own,
You can grow your own,
You can grow your own.
[42:45] Importance of Legalization
And you know, and that's why legalization would be helpful.
Yeah.
Because there would actually be some regulation and people would have to hold themselves to, we would hope, have to hold themselves to a higher standard. Now out here in Colorado, this is debated because people are really starting to see that the cannabis dispensaries, what's on the market, is way too strong, way too toxic, load of insecticides, and different things. And I don't even like buying from there anymore and while there was regulation, we also cannot release the “more is more” approach. So everyone's like, “great cannabis is legal”, “Let's make it super cannabis.” You know?
I know. It's like 40%.
It's not healthy. I know it's not good. and then for me, the drugs get the bad name. Right? Like, they get the bad rap and it's not, it's not the medicine's fault, it's the human's fault.
Yeah.
[43:44] How Does Someone Start Learning About Psychedelics? How Can People Work With Magic Mushrooms Within The Law?
But so how do you suggest, because it is like, I think we're in such a beautiful moment, but it's scary
and it's frustrating because you brought up autonomy. We're coming to this moment where we're actually really having to peel back and, embody what it is we put in our bodies, soup to nuts. Like every single thing from the water we drink, the air, we breathe to every food stuff and supplement in between. And that definitely goes with psychedelics and medicinal earth medicines for sure and it feels frustrating. And certainly in our community, women are like, “I wanna take it yesterday.” but it may not be the right way to start working with this medicine because you do have to learn! And how do you start learning about it?
Yeah. Well, obviously groups like yours that are teaching mentorship, I think having wise ones ahead of you that are, that knows what they're talking about and can explain and answer all the questions and, and are verifiable, you know, they know what they're talking about. I always wonder about cooperatives. I think cooperatives are underused like I think, you know, maybe people in different states could, you know, start growing cooperatives where they sit there and you say, “okay, there's no selling happening.” “You are a member.” You know, have CSAs all over the place for Yeah. Organics for, for fruits and vegetables. Why not a mushroom CSA where you say, “Okay, here's 20 of us. We're all gonna cooperatively learn how to do this. Put in our time to take art care.We're gonna harvest together. We're going to dry together, we're gonna learn together and we will grow our own medicine.” I think we can, I think there's, there's creative ways. You, you really have to sit there and go, okay, “how can we be a ninja on this?” Okay. If the system says you can't do it this way, can we do it this way? Like, look at Utah. Utah has the divine assembly, right?
Yeah.
Use the laws of the state for religious freedom to make another religion using mushrooms
as their sacrament.
The sacrament.
Yeah.
So be creative folks. Like look at, if you wanna be in the law, look at what the law says you can do. Come get smart minds that know how to navigate it to work with, and be and be transparent and in intention. “Our intention is to make our own medicine.”, “Our intention is to be at the highest integrity.”, “There will be no shareholders here.”, “This will be a cooperative or a nonprofit or a charitable” or a 501c in the US or something. But look at where the doors open. There's always an open door somewhere and push your democratic rights. Like, I mean, if you're gonna be a democratic country, then say, we want to express our freedom of consciousness. We want to, this is our, our freedom of consciousness. This is our religion.
Yeah.
And religion is a sacrament.
Mm-Hmm.
Like that's an option, right for you in the us. But I, I think I, you just, what you have to do is say, okay, here's the box. Now let's get way up here and go, what are the other options?
[43:44] What Else Do We Need to Understand When Working With Psychedelics?
Which Is what the medicine helps you do! So just really quick, because you know, you obviously have very strong and viable reasons to look to the science and trust the science. But I'm also sensing that there is a more intense…like what is the other side of it for you, for working with psychedelics specifically is, you know, What are the other components that need to go into this besides just the understanding of the medicine itself, growing, you know, all those things.
Well, Yeah. And remember that it's only really the last 300 years that we've been in this western modality. Like if, if we would all be back in our lineages. There is a non-ordinary state lineage there.
Right.
Right. In our, in our university program, all of our students, that's one of their first assignments. “Where did I come from?”, “Who am I?”, “Who are ancestors?”
Yeah.
What were their practices when they were, in wherever they came from? Wherever I came from. So forever, all of us, if we go back enough generations had lineages of some sort of non-ordinary state. And I, you know, it's only recently that we've really been in this sickness model. So we can navigate that.
Don't worry, we can come back to whole human health. I have, “I'm the forever optimist.” But these medicines are the reason for beautiful art, for beautiful music, you know, for connection, for community. You know, you can't have a psilocybin journey with friends or family and not feel more connected and more in love with them and the world and nature. So these are,
And God and all the things Yeah.
Everything! These are spiritual Medicines.
Yeah.
They are, they make us happier. They make us better. They make us more connected. They remind us who we are, is what they do is they bring us back to our true self. And if they can help with illness and symptoms too, hell yeah. I'm in for that. And it's, it's the whole human spectrum. Right? It's our creativity. it is science, it is spirituality. These separations are completely artificial.
They completely are. And they're detrimental when they're separate. You know, science and creativity should always walk hand in hand because you need imagination for science!
And they do! Every scientist, every real scientist is spiritual in some way, is creative in some way. You have to be like forever curious to go “I wonder why?”
Yeah.
Because it's not fun to do a lot of research! It takes a ton of hours. You don't get paid well. You just have to really be doing it for the curiosity and the awe. it's like we are coming back to whole human health. Coming back to these, these are spiritual medicines. If they help us heal our ailments, like we look to our ayahuasca colleagues. If ayahuasca is a medicine of connection, it's a medicine of physical healing. It's a medicine of spiritual healing, of symptom, it'll heal symptoms. It'll heal health over time. Depending on where you are in your journey. But ayahuasca doesn't say, “Oh, you can only treat your resistant depression.”
Right, right.
And so the same, it's a being that is much older than we are on this planet. And, we're just happen to be in a couple hundred years of where we think of sickness and treatment and all that. So I think what's happening is as these medicines come back, we're coming back into our whole human health where
We're intelligent enough to hold all of this together.
Yeah.
You can be a doctor who's creative and spiritual. You can be an artist who's scientific and, entrepreneur.
Like these separations are meant to divide us and then we're just saying, screw it. No division.
Yeah. Completely!
We're humans.
Yeah.
And we're allowed to be diverse, and we're allowed to disagree, and we're allowed to Yes. And it's all fine.
Right. And there's no definitive right or wrong way, you know, outside of like, do no harm.
Yeah.
You know, that you, and I like that you said that, “over time these can help too.” That this isn't also,
we're also in a very materialistic age and I think we're moving out of that as well, which is, you want this like immediate and visceral effect of something. Um, do you have to go, I'm sure you have clients. I'm kidding.
I'm just answering a few things, if you don't mind my eyes going to the side.
No, That's fine. I'm like, she's, “there's no way she could talk for much longer,” but we keep on. but we demand this visceral manifestation of results. And I find that a lot in our community. People get very frustrated where they're like, “it's not working. It's not working.” And to understand what “working” actually means and to soften around progress, however that looks for you, I think is a really interesting lesson that the medicine teaches because it's not instant.
[52:19] Be Here Now
Well, I think people forget that their life is today. Like, this is today. This is my life, not in the future. “I wanna be better so I can do something there.” No, no, no. This is your life! This moment in time is your life! Be here now! And one of the best things, one of my mentors has said, well, I have a lot of great mentors that have said a lot of great things, but one of them is like, “life is a marathon, not a sprint.”
The learning is in it. There is something you are learning, so learn it! And you, so, and especially like women or everyone in our program learns how to do tapping EFT. Because you can move through this stuff and you can learn from it. And once you get through it, anything you can look back and go, “I get why I had to experience that.” “Now that makes sense.” Maybe not right away, but down the road.
And it's, it is this marathon, but live in the now vision for the future. Live in the now, know where you're going, where you'd like to go. But live life today, in the moment, this is your life! Whether it's crying right now, whether it's pain right now, whether it's a good laugh, whether it's just sitting on your beautiful porch staring at the pine trees, you know, live our life now. And I think if we can keep reminding ourselves each other in our communities live now, “how are you now?”
And, and not being okay now is okay! You know, we're, especially I find for women, we've been told that we can't, we can't be not be okay. Right? So like, if your now is, I'm just, “I'm feeling real bad in my body” or my now is “I have a lot of emotions” and “I don't know where they're coming from or how to navigate them” like those things are okay!bAnd the, the reflex of this instant shut it down, which is the pill out of the same bottle that everyone else has only compounds the problem. But the, you know, so being open and not resistant to uncomfortability, to pain, to not perfect nows is so liberating! Because then it's just a moment.
Exactly. And everything is through it. Right?
Yeah.
It's the psyche. It is the psychedelic journey is the same as the life journey. Lean in, curiosity, use something, some sort, some sort of modality to move through it, breathing, tapping, noticing. And one of the, I love a, an Irish friend, mentioned, taught me this was that, you know, you don't have to, “you are not the emotion, you are experiencing emotion.”So
I love it!
So what we do now is like when you feel angry is like, “Oh, the anger is upon me.” Is as opposed to
Oh my Yes! That's amazing!
Yeah. Like people say, I'm angry, and now we say “The anger is upon me.” or “The irritation has arrived” and it's not me I like wanna make t-shirts of all this. That's amazing.
Yeah.
“The rage is upon me”, “the rage has arrived.”
Yeah. And it's, it's an experiencing of it. It is not me. You know, that the anger is upon me. The sadness has is upon me, but it not as is “The happiness is upon me.”
Ah, yes.
“The happiness And the joy has arrived.”
Yes, exactly.
Exactly. And this idea of like this, um, you know, the stiff upper lip or the, everything has to be okay. You know, how are you, “I'm great!” You know, like this inability to just share because not only does I feel like a lot of people in our culture, feel like they can't share the truth of how they are, but they also can't, on the other end, you can't, we often can't receive the truth how someone is, because we don't like being around uncomfortable people.
Yeah.
Um, but if it's just upon you,
it's okay To say “it's s****y.” It's okay to say “it's s****y” and not do anything. Like somebody says, “oh my God, blah, blah, blah.” “That sucks.” I don't, you don't have to fix it. And this is another thing, the couples out there, the couple saving thing is do you want a sympathetic ear or do you want a solution
that will save most marriages, or it really will.
It's genius advice. It's so good.
I just need to vent. I need a solution. Okay, I'm ready. You know, like it's,
Yeah.
[56:34] Share Your Challenges Then Move On
It's not that difficult. And if we just keep sharing these things and I think that, I think what is nice now is that people are sharing their challenges, but the other part of it is then - move on.
It's not your identity.
No. You are not a victim.
No and you're experiencing it, and now you are gaining your superpower and moving forward.
Amen!
Yes, That thing happened. Yes, it happened. No one denies it, but now what?
Yeah.
Now what? Because you can't, you don't wanna, you don't wanna make, you don't wanna make the worst thing that's ever happened to you, your identity, that is not you. Then the world deserves your best, who you are.
Right.
So moving through it saying, yeah, “I'm having a s****y day.”, “My kids are a******s” but…
it's hard
Yeah.
Well, Or allow that to be the truth for the day.
Totally.
Because if you move through it
Yeah. Then move through it and learn from it. And I love how you relate it to like a psychedelic journey
because like, we have this idea, A lot of people have that, this idea of how their journey, especially the first, it should look this way. I want this outcome, I want this thing, I want this realization. And this is like never gonna happen in your real life like why would it happen in an altered state in a higher dimension with a whole bunch of stuff going on?
No, you get what you need and that's,
You get what you need!
It goes back to the marathon. It's a marathon. More unfolds over time. Lean in, Now that the unconscious is conscious, now you do something with it and then it becomes ordinary. But you gotta be that integration. Right? You have to do that and you have to go through the s**t, but you also have to vision what you want. Right?
For sure!
Always looking in the rear view mirror to all the s****y things that happened. How your ex-husband was a jerk and your parents, you like that stuff happened. No one's denying it but if you're always looking in the rear view mirror, You never get where you wanna go. Right? So that's, and that's what microdosing can also be really good, even mini dosing.
Because I find like mini dose with a bunch of people that you can chat with, then you can move through and it can be very heart opening.
Right.
You don't need MDMA you can use,
Yeah
but you can also use low dose mini dose psilocybin.
Oh, I love that. Like around the fire with people that you love
Yep.
In a space of vulnerability and open-heartedness.
Yeah.
And because I think the, one of the beautiful things that psilocybin especially does is it just, it comes up and out. It helps you release. It just fly. It just flies away after, especially after you say it out loud. I find like, it's like the words energetically exit your body and they're gone.
And then if it's, and then if it's stuck, you do the tapping. If it's stuck, “ah, hey, I'm really feeling it.” Okay, good. And get, let's get people moving through this stuff.
Oh gosh.
Women are superheroes.
I mean
Women are superheroes.
You're not wrong.
I'm not wrong. Nope. Take the reins, make the world,nthe world you want vision. I think it's really most important. Now, get off the phones, get back into nature, get into community, sit around the fire, take over. Like it's time for women leadership. It's time for women to step in and say, “let's go, let's, we need a kinder, gentler world.” And it's really, it's like this, that we can do that.
Yeah. Yin leadership and not, not leading, like a man leading with the Yin. And it's, and I don't even really, I agree with you fully, but I've even been watching my words with, like, the idea of takeover. I think men, it's time to just step aside and let some Yin energy come in but we don't need a takeover anymore. What we need is unity, you know, we need compromise and we need the idea that all things are not one way or the other. They're all things are not, we're never…
That would be boring.
And it's okay
Argument behind you. If there wasn't a whole bunch of different types of trees. Like it would be boring! Like we need diversity! We need to be able to disagree respectfully and walk away if we don't agree and love. I love the fact that I can eat a million different ethnicities of food. Like what a delightful world that is!
Indeed. And what a, what a delightful. Yeah. Like the things that we do create, like how, what a gift to enjoy them.
Yeah.
Even donuts…
I can't suggest that as the doctor, but I'm joking. Donut on.
They are delightful. Just in moderation as all things. Maybe not, maybe not shrooms, but maybe, I dunno.
[01:01:09] Podcast Outro
Dr. Kryskow, thank you so much! I'm gonna have to insist that you come back and keep preaching to the group. But I'm really grateful for all the work you're doing. for those of you who just finished this, we'll drop the link to the study that is happening and, and, you're just kind of out there doing your thing. It's not like I could send anybody your way, really. You're just out there “Walking the walk.” You know.
people can, if people wanna see what we're doing at Roots to Thrive, we're there.
Yeah.
Check the psychedelic Association of Canada's got LOTS of great resources for everyone.
We got Lots of Canadian sisters in this community, so that's great.
Oh, good, good. and you know, if people wanna study and wanna take it to the, like their postgraduate level, like the professionals out there are thinking that this is their range. We need well qualified, skilled folks. I mean, there's lots of great training out there, all over. Get it where you can. But, that's where you'll find
Is it just, do you have to be Canadian to take your training?
No, no, no. University, people can apply. We have international students.
I am like, I would seriously consider getting my medical license just so I could take your training. Probably not gonna happen, but I would think about it.
Yeah. And we'll get back, we'll get back together as we, as we hit some milestones with the survey and,
and go through all and go through the data.
Amen.
All right. Thank you so much.
I'm really grateful for you. Thanks everyone.
Take care. Take care. Bye-Bye
Bye.
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