Mormons on Mushrooms

M.O.M. talks to MoM! Tracey goes deep into the multiverse with hosts Mike and Doug covering everything from why she feels microdosing is beneficial for moms to aliens, quantum theory and just about everything in between. This is a lively one!

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[00:00:00] Doug: Welcome everybody to Mormons on Mushrooms just a reminder that this is a storytelling podcast, where we discuss alternative methods for healing from trauma and seeking a more fulfilling life. A lot of times on the podcast, we discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health top priority.

Lastly, the opinions offered by our guests don't necessarily reflect the opinions of the hosts. Sit back, buckle up and enjoy.

[00:00:46] Mike: Hey, buddy. 

Hey my sound might be shit right now because I'm in Utah for the for the revival festival and I don't have my mic and I'm out here with the birds. It's a beautiful day in Utah. 

[00:00:58] Doug: Hell yeah, man. Two days, two days. We're going to be headed to the revival together. Can you believe it?

It's already here. Very exciting. Yeah. Also very exciting. Talking to Tracey is very exciting, right? 

[00:01:11] Mike: I love Tracey, man. That was like I can't even describe how magical that conversation was. 

[00:01:17] Doug: Yeah, she's, she's just has an aura about her and her just that her storytelling and the passion for what she does.

It's it almost feels like I was like, man, I'm, I want to be a mother. I want to. Go through motherhood. Like I was like feeling jealous that I was, I'm not a mother, even though I'm a father and a parent and all that kind of stuff, she really makes it sound like it's an exclusive club that like, Hey, we got our own shit going on.

Doesn't she? 

[00:01:44] Mike: And. It makes me want to take a mom, son, mushrooms course. 

[00:01:48] Doug: Yeah, seriously. I wonder, we didn't even ask her that, but I was like, can dads join the mom, son, mushrooms course. 

[00:01:57] Mike: Yeah, she is we're speaking with Tracey T. She is the founder of a I was going to call it a group, but like 

a 

[00:02:05] Doug: movement, really 

[00:02:05] Mike: a movement called moms on mushrooms.

So of course, moms on mushrooms, Mormons on mushrooms. We had a chat with her and she's really creating a cool thing. 

It's a, it's part community, part support group and part she has courses designed to help walk you through, 

The 

particularities you will find as a mom trying to explore psychedelics.

[00:02:28] Doug: Yeah. It sounds like her courses. She keeps expanding them. She's talking about the one that she's in the middle of right now. And the next one that's coming up, it sounds like she's just got people who are lined up to, they want to be part of this. They've got the shared life experience, and she's, she does a really good job.

It's so funny, like she speaks. And a lot of times when you and I are talking, we're Oh, I'm not sure about this and this is an interesting thing and she just has this way of approaching that with whether she knows something or not, she's just let's find out.

It's clear. It's a thing that we can do. We can do it, and I really quite enjoyed that conversation. 

[00:03:10] Mike: I think I'm still flowing from it. We did it. We recorded it last week. Typically we record soon after, but this one because of travel and because of coming out here for Xolsis and stuff we and visiting you.

[00:03:19] Doug: Yeah, we had a great weekend, didn't we? 

[00:03:21] Mike: And, for those who you may also know Tracey, this is her first rodeo, so she was also the founder of, co founder of the Pump and Dump show, and also she had A podcast called the band of mother's podcast for a while. So I don't know, you might know her from different places.

[00:03:40] Doug: Yeah. But whether you know her or not, you're going to know her after this and you're going to want to know her more. She's awesome. You can find her. Mom's on mushrooms at the as far as Instagram goes, her website, I think is moms on mushrooms. com. 

[00:03:56] Mike: We'll put it all in the notes. You'll find it.

[00:03:58] Doug: We'll put it in the notes. And she's, and I think that you're going to enjoy Tracey. She's radical. Love 

[00:04:04] Mike: her. And before we, we set you loose with Tracey. We're two days away from when we talked about it from the revival. Still time to come join us, camp with us. This will be released today. So come and come and camp with us up at the revival.

[00:04:19] Doug: Come and just let yourself lean into the magic and the fun and the experience. That's going to be our solstice revival camp. It'll be fun. 

[00:04:30] Mike: Meanwhile, an airplane is flying overhead. This is like the worst sound we've ever done. Hasn't it? 

[00:04:34] Doug: It's all good. You're doing it. It's totally good. All 

[00:04:37] Mike: right.

Enjoy. 

[00:04:39] Doug: Enjoy.

[00:04:47] Mike: This is the part where you guys must 

[00:04:48] Doug: consent. I hereby consent to this following conversation. 

[00:04:53] Tracey Tee: She never ceases to be not creepy to me. I don't know. It's just like very abrupt and abrasive. And every time it shows up, I'm like okay. 

[00:05:01] Doug: Yeah. It's can I choose to not have the voice? I can hit, got it.

Which by the way, they're very casual with instead of saying agree or whatever. 

[00:05:11] Tracey Tee: Got it. You're going to use my likeness all over the internet. Yeah. I don't, got it. I don't know where you're going to put this, but I, 

[00:05:18] Doug: but I got it. 

[00:05:19] Tracey Tee: Got it. 

[00:05:20] Doug: But then that lady comes on and she's like recording in process.

You're like, Oh, am I in trouble? Am I being arrested? Yeah. 

[00:05:26] Tracey Tee: Can we change it like Apple maps? So it's like somebody that's a little bit more pleasant. 

[00:05:31] Doug: Yeah. Give me that Scottish dude, man. I want to hear him from Apple maps. 

[00:05:36] Mike: I always pick the for Siri, I pick the Irish woman. I just like, like a little about 

[00:05:40] Doug: those accents, man.

I like the accent. 

[00:05:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:43] Tracey Tee: Yeah. I I can't change. It feels, yeah, I don't know. Sorry. That's my Chihuahua barking. Jojo, can we're talking. 

[00:05:49] Doug: Come on, Jojo. Come on over. 

[00:05:51] Tracey Tee: Come on. Come sit on my lap. If you, okay. Now she now I've scolded her. You can tell how abusive this family is. Yeah. 

[00:05:57] Doug: Now she's cowering in shame in the corner.

She is. 

[00:06:02] Mike: I am. I am glad though, that they asked for consent before you get led around by two drunk guys. To protect our assets, 

[00:06:10] Tracey Tee: I'm just glad there's a screen between us. That's all I'm saying. Otherwise, I don't know, 

[00:06:14] Doug: man, if I had a, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard that, like we're coming up on a hundred episodes, so I'd have a hundred nickels.

[00:06:24] Tracey Tee: That might get you half a gallon of gas. Maybe not. Maybe not even. 

[00:06:30] Doug: It depends on where you're at. 

[00:06:31] Tracey Tee: You're not in Denver. 

[00:06:32] Doug: Yeah. Not in Denver. Not in Los Angeles. Not definitely not in Los Angeles. Yeah. When I was in San Francisco last weekend. I paid 7. 99 a gallon for gas. 

[00:06:42] Tracey Tee: That's insane. That's not okay.

I'm angry about that. I'm more angry about that than I am about the Zoom woman. 

[00:06:49] Doug: Same. The Zoom woman can say derogatory things towards me if I can pay a little bit less for gas. 

[00:06:56] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Agree. 

[00:06:57] Mike: I'm glad we're starting with talking about things we're angry at and 

[00:07:01] Tracey Tee: just making so much sense for the listeners.

I'm sure everyone's enjoying this thoroughly. 

[00:07:05] Mike: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You'd be surprised what people enjoy.

Tracey, it's so good seeing you again. For those listeners you can go back into our Instagram. Archive and find a quick, maybe the listener will right now and see our quick, it was like a 20 minute Instagram live that we did with Tracey a few months back, which was lovely. And I left that live being like, Holy shit.

There's so many questions I wanted to ask. So many, we just it's just like scratching the surface, 

[00:07:36] Tracey Tee: yeah. 

[00:07:37] Mike: And so I left there being like, we have to bring her on. And so I think I texted you like the next day let's do this for real. 

[00:07:44] Tracey Tee: Let's do this for real. 

[00:07:45] Mike: Real this time. 

[00:07:46] Tracey Tee: Yeah. No, I love it.

And mom and mom, like we're, we're together forever. So 

[00:07:50] Doug: joined at the hip. We 

[00:07:51] Tracey Tee: are. Yeah. 

[00:07:54] Doug: Ours is a little bit like two middle aged white men. So we should call ours two middle aged white men on mushrooms so that you guys, so that y'all can have the moms on mushrooms.

Cause 

[00:08:06] Tracey Tee: I don't know. I'm crazy about Mormons on mushrooms. Like I say, keep it. 

[00:08:11] Mike: Yeah, we're crazy about it too. 

[00:08:13] Tracey Tee: You should be. Yeah. 

[00:08:15] Mike: And we just trademarked it actually. Nice. 

[00:08:17] Tracey Tee: So if I try to trademark my mom's on mushrooms, are we going to get in like a legal battle? Will it be awkward?

[00:08:23] Doug: No it we take this stuff to the streets that we won't get. The law involved at all, it's snapping, it's dance battles. It's like 

[00:08:30] Tracey Tee: psychedelic shakedown. Let's just pray it out. 

[00:08:37] Doug: That's right. It's this. 

[00:08:39] Mike: I don't know if you want to pray it out against two former Mormons though.

You kidding me? We can get real. Serious with our prayers, . 

[00:08:46] Tracey Tee: I was raised very Christian, so I could probably jump in there. Yeah. 

[00:08:50] Mike: Have you ever welled and naed your teeth while you pray? 

[00:08:53] Tracey Tee: No. No, but I've spent most of my childhood and early adult years just feeling horribly guilty while I prayed on unworthy.

[00:09:03] Doug: Can we start there? The ing of 

[00:09:05] Tracey Tee: the teeth might have actually been like, therapeutic, 

[00:09:09] Doug: so I want to springboard off of that, if that's okay. Sure. Because. I don't think it's unique. A lot of the stuff that we talk about in this podcast we approach it from this, like our experience as being raised Mormons, but I don't think it's unique to Mormonism to like, feel that there's this God who is watching you that you can never live up to. And so that leads to the idea of, Mike, you mentioned wailing and gnashing of teeth, but it's that I, if you haven't if someone has not. Like unironically cried while doing a personal prayer in there, like in their mind, not even an out loud prayer, but like on their knees, like praying for forgiveness and trying to repent of their sins.

And like doing the fake cry so that God knows you're serious. And it's wait a minute, this is God we're talking about. How could God be fooled by your crocodile tears? But I still felt you know what, if I put on the real waterworks, God's going to feel bad and be like, you know what, he tried his best and sure.

He's gone, 897 straight days. Masturbating, but this time he means it this time. He means it when he's I'll never do it again. I swear. I swear. God. There are a lot of, 

[00:10:28] Tracey Tee: yeah, that was a lot to unpack there for sure. Yeah, 

[00:10:32] Doug: let's unpack it. Yeah. I'm happy to be dissected on this situation.

[00:10:37] Tracey Tee: Yeah, it's it's tough. For me there's so many directions to go with this conversation, but Yeah. In terms of the medicine I've never felt when I finally came to microdose to psilocybin and certainly after I had my first like five gram journey and got to talk to God and not in an egoic sense in the holiest, most sacred, the most humble I've ever been in my life.

I've never been more close to God, like ever. Never. My faith in God has been like, I've tripled down on it. I'm not afraid to say it anymore. I feel like always in the past, it was this obligatory thing that I had to quantify as part of my identity. I was raised in a church and I needed to be a good Christian girl.

And I was just born with a crushing guilt complex. It's just part of my DNA, which was perfect, for the time. I was baptized Lutheran and then we went to a Baptist church. So they just loved that part of it. But I just never understood, I remember being a little girl sitting in, maybe I wasn't that little, maybe I was like in junior high.

I remember sitting in church. just sitting there listening to this man rail at this room full of people. And I just remember thinking, why is he yelling at me? And like, why is he telling me he doesn't know me at all? Like he doesn't know anything about me. Why is he telling me I'm such a bad person from that moment on?

I just never got it. I never felt like I belonged. I never felt worthy. I always felt horrible. And I was like the most G rated. The most G rated kid. I wasn't compared to my friends. I was, I definitely had sex before marriage. I definitely was drinking bottles of tequila at my best friend's basement when I was like 15 and throwing up.

But that is G rated, right? Like it wasn't really getting into trouble. I was just being stupid and ruining my body. I didn't smoke pot until college. I never did drugs until psilocybin in my 40s. I'm a pretty good on paper. But I just never got this whole repent gnashing of teeth thing.

And it's a hard, it's a big mind, you know what? When you come Oh, you can 

[00:12:53] Doug: say fuck. Oh, great. 

[00:12:56] Tracey Tee: That's one thing. And then I never cursed until I was like a senior in high school and now I can't stop. So it was a really big, it was a really big mind fuck when you come to you, you do this massive turnaround and you're like, Oh, I actually do deeply believe in God.

I am profoundly, I don't know what's use the word worshipful, but I am. Profoundly connected. And I want to be a better person. And I want to do these things. And it's so massively different than how you were raised. It's a big, it's a big thing to calibrate in your head for sure. 

[00:13:33] Mike: So I'm just processing that just for a second because

Yeah. Let me, I guess I don't have anything right now. 

[00:13:39] Tracey Tee: Okay. That was a great talk guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. It's 

[00:13:42] Doug: been, it's been great chatting with you. So I'm curious because you've, when we first started this podcast, you're talking about very similar stories. In fact, we were maybe even more G rate.

I didn't have a sip of alcohol until I was 33 years old. Married. I was a virgin when I got married, all that kind of stuff. But so I when I left the Mormon Church, I went into the atheism thing and then plant medicine, specifically psilocybin brought me into this sort of renewed spirituality this connection with the divine that exists within me and the divine that exists within every thing, person, animal, plant object that I come into contact with. And when we first started this podcast, even using the term spirituality or spiritual was almost like a trigger word for us.

[00:14:35] Tracey Tee: Oh, totally. 

[00:14:36] Doug: You know what I mean? So I'm curious as to what your experience has been with as you've reconnected with that concept of God. Have you been able to embrace some of those things from being baptized Lutheran being raised in a Baptist church? Have you been able to reconnect with some of that stuff?

If not, that's totally fine too. But I'm curious about that. Yeah, 

[00:14:54] Tracey Tee: no, it's a great question. I've definitely gone like full woo. So there, there's that, I, this year I decided I'm going to teach myself tarot. I have never met a girl I didn't love. You're going to love 

[00:15:06] Mike: tarot. 

[00:15:07] Tracey Tee: Oh yeah.

It's been fascinating. Hold on. Hold 

[00:15:10] Mike: on. One second. Did you say you never met a crystal you didn't love? 

[00:15:12] Tracey Tee: Yeah. 

[00:15:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:14] Tracey Tee: Like ever, like literally never met a crystal of love. So there's that side of me for sure that that was hard to break through as well. Oh my gosh I'm pulling Oracle cards.

I'm pulling tarot. It took me a long time to, I was like, okay, with Oracle cards, but tarot was like the pinnacle of all evil, right? I'm just like, Satan's going to jump into my mouth and just, take over my body with one touch of a card. So there's that side of me, but then, I will say like our daughter goes to a Catholic school, but she went to a Jewish preschool.

And for us, it's just very important to raise her in an environment where she just realized that she's not the center of the universe to do that. And. get your kid to a educational space that feels right for your family. You got to compromise a little bit. And in terms of Christianity, no, I don't really resonate with that anymore.

I am dipping my toes back into the Bible. I'm having a hard time, like finding a Bible that I feel like is written correctly. I'm very skeptical of the translations. And I guess for me, more than anything, what was stripped away from me was an attachment to dogma. And once I let the dogma go, and I just sat with myself and asked, what is it that I truly believe?

What is it that I, what speaks to me? It was just God and love, right? From there, all things are possible. From there, I could pull Oracle cards and I could ask God, okay, what message do you want through me? I'm a visceral learner. The pictures help. The messages help. I'm a writer. It all resonates.

And once I shifted the narrative to say, I'm not really looking and within the realm of spirituality, yes, do I dabble in aliens and the Galactic Federation and all that stuff? Do I know what I believe in that yet? I don't. But at the minute it feels like it's dogmatic. Or two, like you have to really believe in this, like grouping of things.

I'm out because I, that's where I think things go wrong. But beyond that, can I read a Bible verse or a beautiful poem by a monk or, of course, and find it very, as much as I can read the back of a God of a Vita or whatever it's called, like I can't speak right now. I've been on like 14 zoom calls today.

Does that answer your question? 

[00:17:31] Mike: I think it does perfectly. I was just going to say what alien race do you feel like you are? 

[00:17:37] Tracey Tee: I don't know. I'm not sure. I think it might be between Pleiadian and Syrian. Yeah. But I really just, I resonate with angels. I don't think I'm an angel. But I, if I had guides, And I have a hard time even with guides.

I feel like for me, they are like angels. I feel like it's I really resonate with the Elohim. They would, if I had guides or if I have guides, whoever I talk to who they are, like, sometimes I'll be talking to my husband or my friends and they're, and I'm like they said, and they're like, everyone's who's they?

I'm like, I don't know. It's just all of them up there talking to me. Yeah, I 

[00:18:10] Mike: love 

[00:18:10] Tracey Tee: it. In my mind They're of the angelic realm. They're messengers of God. 

[00:18:14] Mike: So did mushrooms play a big part in that reclaiming your spirituality? Cause I know or were you reclaiming it before mushrooms? 

[00:18:22] Tracey Tee: I feel like I was on a spiritual journey.

It was interesting. I, yeah, I would say like in 2018, I started to it actually really started when I turned 40, which was six years ago now, like the week I turned 40, I was out to dinner with some friends and I just had that moment where we're sitting around and we, and my girlfriend and I had turned 40 at the same time and I was what do you want to do with this new decade?

And in that moment, in this restaurant, yeah. None of my life made sense. It all just seems so banal and repetitive and I just remember thinking, Oh, there's I know there's so much more out there. I know I'm missing something. I felt like I hadn't used my brain in years. And that sort of planted the seed and then fast forward to a few years later, I just started having had a really profound experience in a chapel in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Just weird, different spiritual happenings. And then my business was at this epic. Crazy moment where the stress was so bad. I had no choice but to go deep and I learned about the Enneagram that really started to tap me into my spirituality in a way that explained like offered more like of a 360 view of your life through the lens.

of God or spirituality. And so I dabbled and was like reframing things. But it really wasn't until I started taking mushrooms that I like just knew I just, I felt spiritual, not from the. Instagram sense of the word by how many accessories you have, but like truly like walking in that space.

[00:20:04] Mike: Oh, I love 

that. I love it too. Oh, go ahead, Doug. No, go ahead, Mike. I was going to say, just to just comment on that, because the reason why I asked is because, I think I'd been done mushrooms for a couple of years. And still very much in a, Oh yeah, it's helping create new pathways in my brain.

I feel more connected to myself. I feel more like me. But I would not have classified it as spiritual at all because I still feel like spirituality was something out there. And in fact, it wasn't until, so I was doing like a Kundalini yoga sadhana in preparation for Doug and I, when we did ayahuasca together.

And even there, we were learning about chakras and everything in this Kundalini yoga class. And I was okay, yeah, whatever, whatever. But I started to maybe there's something to this. And then it was in the ayahuasca ceremony when it was like. There's something in all of this that now I get it.

And I'm glad you mentioned like dogmatism because you can take a dogmatic approach to tarot and crystals and star seeds, 

[00:21:07] Tracey Tee: Kundalini, which I just did this morning. I, it's my favorite practice, but I, I'm like, okay guys, like with the pictures come on. 

[00:21:13] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. And like all wearing white and this and doing, it's like, Are you ever going to do it?

Anything can be your dogma. 

Yeah. 

You can make anything your dogma. And so I'm glad you brought that up because I think we see a lot in this community where, and I have to check myself when I'm approaching it in a certain way. If someone's If I'm trying to die on a hill about tarot, I'm, arguing with someone about it.

No, it's if it resonates with them, it does. If it doesn't. And that's great. 

[00:21:40] Tracey Tee: Totally. It's that's the truth. And that's the hard part, right? That's the Aquarian way of looking at things. That's, we're leaving this sort of hierarchical mindset. And, and I find the same in, even in moms on mushrooms when I'm, I Just today on our summer school class, I was trying to introduce myself and I was going to say founder.

And I'm like, that doesn't even feel right. Like I'm a steward. I'm a steward of this space. That's it. 

[00:22:03] Mike: Oh, I love that. 

[00:22:05] Tracey Tee: But within that, I am not here to tell you what to think. I am here to help you discover who you are. That's it. I'm here to give you guidance, suggest things that might help, talk it out, and create a container for us to figure this out together.

But there's nothing I have nothing to offer to anyone. And, I love Oracle cards, but if you don't, it doesn't mean any, it doesn't mean anything. I think I, I would say you have to do something like you have to find some sort of center practice. Some sort of meditative kind of back to my daughter moment where you just allow yourself to admit that you're not the center of the universe.

And I do think that's important. And I, I do think things like working on your trauma and, healing your inner child and working through your shadow. Like I do think all of that is important, but how you get to that, there's a million ways up that mountain. 

[00:23:03] Doug: Yeah. That's interesting. I, I'd love to talk a little bit more about this specific thing because I have a tendency to whether we're using the word dogmatic or stubborn or just going all in on something, I catch myself.

Because I agree with everything that you're saying. I think that basically subscribing to any sort of this is how you have to live your life. And this is how it works for everybody. It makes no sense. We are all having a very different experience and it's, and that's colored by, our childhood, our little tiny experiences that we have that give us but I still find myself, I found myself doing it today at work where We were discussing a thing, like a thing that we got to do.

And I found myself playing devil's advocate to try to make sure that we were looking at it from that whole 360 degree view of okay what could somebody else say about it? How could somebody else feel about it? Not even really buying into what I was bringing up, just bringing it up so that we had brought everything up.

And as people were combating that a little bit or talking it down I didn't say anything, but I found myself. Almost digging my heels in a little bit to be right about the thing that I just made up three minutes ago. 

[00:24:18] Tracey Tee: Sure. 

[00:24:19] Doug: Do you know what I mean? 

[00:24:20] Tracey Tee: Oh yeah. 

[00:24:21] Doug: I caught myself and had the, at least I had the sense of wherewithal to be like, I don't even give a shit about this topic, let alone my opinion on this topic.

And then that kind of washed through me where I was like, Oh yeah let's keep the discussion going. What are some of the. Do you have ways to check yourself or to identify, I love that you talked about introducing yourself and you're like, I don't even like the idea of saying I'm the founder.

I like the idea of steward. What do you do so that you don't find yourself going down some other path that can lead to this dogmatism, this way of okay. This is the way it has to be, the angels are listening and here's what we, type of thing. 

[00:25:04] Tracey Tee: Yeah. No, that's a beautiful question.

I would say my first answer is jump back into another journey. For me, it's about the dissolution of my ego. My, one of my healers just left me a message like just a couple hours ago. And she was like, okay, alpha female, I've been telling you this forever, like tone it down. It's hard when, especially.

Like I do have a strong personality. I am an Enneagram 8. I am an Aries. I am all of the things that are hustle go and that first journey and certainly my second journey, that stuff just started to fall away. And I realized what a hindrance it was. To latch onto my own dogma of either being right or being in control or, being in control under the guise of, Oh I'm just wanting to make sure everyone's okay.

It's still a control thing and letting go. And in my, I have last few years, I picked words of the year instead of like a. New Year's resolution. And they're hanging on my wall next to me. That's why I'm looking at them. But last year, my word was surrender. And Holy shit. I literally did not learn that lesson until December 31st, 2021.

It was boom after boom of God universe, whatever you want to call it, just being like, Do you surrender? You are not in control. This isn't up to you. Stop attaching yourself to like things that don't define you, and I finally learned it. But then this year, my word is courage because inside of that space, you also have the current, you have to have the courage to just be yourself.

And that actually is a lot scarier than wanting to be right. And I think within that, and I think the shrooms help. More than anything, which is the magic of being able to detach yourself and realize that there's this beautiful connection between us and that it just doesn't have anything to do with me anymore.

And I'm going to say this here because I love you guys and I'm admitting it like with a caveat, but it was David Ike of all people, I was listening to some talk he was doing and he talked about people being in boxes and that we put ourselves in boxes. And we surround ourselves with abbreviations and letters behind our name to like demand that people know who we are.

It just makes you smaller. It doesn't make you bigger. It makes you, the more letters you add to the end of your name, it makes you smaller and more separate and more into a tinier box away from everyone else. But if you let go of those letters and you step out of the box, you are just who you are.

And you, If you would detach yourself from an identity, whether it's, religious or political or any number of affiliate could be sports. Once you let that go and you just stand in who you are now, it's terrifying, but it, you stop winding up that toy of demanding people listen to you all the time.

[00:28:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:00] Tracey Tee: Does that make sense? 

[00:28:02] Mike: Yes, that definitely. This is so timely for me. Have you guys been watching that preformed documentary? The deep end with till Swan? 

[00:28:11] Tracey Tee: Not yet, but everyone keeps telling me to watch it. I 

[00:28:13] Mike: have been, you need to watch it. I just finished it. And I didn't know who till Swan was, but and now I, I get it.

Maybe some people who listen to us also. Follow Til Swan on Instagram or whatever. I'm not to disparage her, but, and I know also when you're doing a documentary, you're creating a good story, but the story they're creating around her with that, it shows to unchecked power and unchecked shadow and where you can.

When we call it projection or transference and counter transference, if you talk, talk, talking like therapeutic, but or the counter projection, if someone's projecting something onto you and us right here, who are working in a public space. We'll have a lot of projections, but even if you're not working in a public space, if you're a father or a mother, your kids are going to project things onto you or your friends are your we're all, we're projecting all the time and we can become so attached to those projections.

And I love the word when you said you were a steward. 

[00:29:09] Doug: Yeah, 

[00:29:09] Mike: because I love that word. Cause it's almost like you're saying, no, I'm here to be that presence. But I am not that presence, right? Or I'm here to, I should say, I'm here to embody this presence while you need me to embody it, but then I'm not going to get attached to that.

So if I'm thinking of like podcast host, Mike, I love stepping into this role and being it on the air and talking to cool people like you. And then it's that's not who I am all the time. And it's not even who I am. It's just a role that I play. And the more we can identify or recognize that we're just playing different roles, that one will allow us to step into those roles fully when we want to embody them and also step away when it's time to step away.

I think that's important. 

[00:29:58] Tracey Tee: Yeah. And I think again, like back to my mate. Like big profound journey. I was like shown my Dharma. And I think when you figure out your path and you figure out why you're here, you figure out your soul's purpose. And all of those are buzzwords now and overused.

And again, over Instagrammed and over memed. But if you get to the heart of it, it's a really it's I didn't know what souls purpose meant. I don't, I still don't know that I found my soul. I think I've had moments of connecting to my higher self, but it's brief and too much for this human body to even alchemize.

But I do know that you can, if you get quiet and you allow yourself to surrender and listen, you can find your soul's purpose and it doesn't have to be massive. It's different for everyone. But I think if you find that. And you just lead with that, whether you, so then whatever roles you're playing, if you're part of it as getting on a podcast, if it matches what your Dharma is or your soul's purpose you're not, you're, you are checking your power because you're just walking in your path.

And truly we're all here to serve each other. In the end, Truly, even if you become a leader, even if you become a king or, whatever, some sort of high figure that people look to, you can still be of service, and if you can maintain that philosophy and stay with that. then the roles you play are very simple and very clear.

And then it doesn't. And if it conflicts with your path, then you don't do it anymore. It's very easy because it doesn't feel right. And it's funny. I was just thinking when you were talking about like gnashing of teeth and stuff. And I have to say, in the last two years, I probably spent more time on my knees on the floor, crying in prayer and like literally like head on the floor, just instinctively than I ever did in the Christian church.

And I think that's because when you allow yourself to, to surrender to the divine, you want to let in the lessons that you're supposed to learn. And you're okay with allowing yourself to mourn the parts of you that failed that day. 

[00:32:12] Doug: Man, I. I subscribe, whatever it takes to get daily wisdom or daily thoughts from you.

I hear by subscribe, because this is this is timely. It's like touching on a thing that I've been trying to figure out lately. I'll use like an, I'll use like a real easy to digest example, but this example can be true about anything in life. Say take something as innocuous as the act of dancing therapeutically.

[00:32:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:32:44] Doug: Like we all, I think we all subscribe to that idea of oh man, dancing so good for you. It feels so good. It makes you feel alive. It gets your, it gets your dopamine going. But then I also notice. Like suddenly dancing for therapy becomes this performative thing of people putting lessons in it and teaching others.

And then suddenly it's no longer an inward thing. It's suddenly an outward thing, right? I'm those of you listening. I'm just speaking as this is an example. I love all of you and I love your dancing. I think it's amazing. But then what happens to me is, okay I'm down let's get some dancing for like for self care for mental health benefits.

But as soon as I, as soon as I'm conscious of doing that, I become aware that I'm now like, okay, I hope people can see that I'm dancing in this little, live music thing or this little like dive bar that has a open mic night or just whatever the fuck it is I suddenly find that I'm in my head again about okay Are people seeing how easy it is for me to just let go and dance and not care about what I look like but then again, I deeply care about what I look like once again so I'm doing that loop again where?

I got to that point where dance like nobody is watching and I'm feeling it and I'm feeling alive and I feel good after I'm, after I've, finished or whatever it is, but then it kind of tips, right? It tips to now I'm like I hope everybody is paying attention to how good I feel and how free I am and how.

I can dance this way and not care what people think about my 

[00:34:28] Tracey Tee: inspiring everyone around me. I hope everyone's feeling 

[00:34:31] Doug: inspired. Yes, exactly. And that just, and that becomes like a cycle that exists in everything in my life that I become aware of. Do you know what I mean? And maybe it's the mushrooms that helped me like be more cognitive of that kind of stuff.

But it's I'll go into a journey and suddenly I'll be like, dude you're just playing these different roles. You're just playing the part. Mike, you were mentioning you're playing the role of podcast host Mike. Sometimes. But that's not, that doesn't really, it circles around it, but it doesn't really pinpoint the you that you want to express, like the Eunice that exists, right?

Yeah. And that's true about dancing or doing yoga or doing a lot of, even doing the thing that we're here to talk about, it becomes this thing of so when did you get into it and how many times and what's your micro dosing schedule? And it becomes this whole thing of once again, I find myself projecting onto others and comparing myself to where do I fit in on this higher, this human hierarchy? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And it's just and then I get, and then the next part of the cycle is me being aware of it and being like, okay let's shed some of these layers.

Let's try to get down to like true enlightenment. Let's try to get, let's try to get down to, and then you finally figure out why. All of these yogis and gurus and masters like grand masters. Why they just fucking sit on a mountain? 

[00:35:59] Mike: Because you, you have to because it's 

[00:36:01] Doug: at what point do you stop going through these cycles and just be still and take in the beauty that life and existence has.

[00:36:11] Mike: It's dead on and before, I just want to say one thing to that James Hillman, a pretty popular depth psychologist has this quote where he says, we think the goal is to always just be constantly aware that we have to be aware, but no, the goal is to be in it. Sometimes we're just with moments of awareness, but we want to be in it.

We want to be in our stories. We want to be in, and that's why, with, I love myth. And I think myth helps us 

[00:36:42] Tracey Tee: totally 

[00:36:43] Mike: identify that. So like Doug, when you share a dream to me, or if someone shares like their trip story, you can go and enter into their myth. 

Yeah. And be 

like, Whoa, I don't, I'm entering into the myth of Doug or Tracey right now.

And where are they at now? They're seeing things I've never seen before, but this figure over here, he looks like a little shadowy figure that reminds me of a shadowy figure that I met the other day in a dream I had. So you're pointing them out in their myth, but you're in there with them.

And we're here, I want to experience life. I don't want to just be aware and sit on a mountain and meditate all day. 

[00:37:18] Doug: Exactly. 

[00:37:20] Mike: Yeah. And you 

[00:37:20] Tracey Tee: know, and that's. Yeah. And that's, there's two, I think there's two parts to that. The presence part and being in it, that's the, and I've, this is what I've been playing with this a lot in the last few months, just like allowing myself to be human, which I think is when you, especially when you have a big awakening or you have a profound journey experience and you see the universe, the multiverse, you, It starts to get really mundane down here.

It can. And it, and then you start to see what a joke the matrix is and these systems that we're forced to prescribe to, and it gets frustrating as well. And then you, then I find myself saying this is stupid. I don't want to go to this birthday party. It's it's doesn't mean anything, but it does mean something because we're humans connecting.

And so I have to, Make it simple, keep it simple, stupid, so there's that part of, like you said, like being in the presence and I think even the ascended masters of the masters, you have to make a choice. Like you're either down there in the muck in the dirt with humans, which was what Jesus did.

And a lot of what you said, Doug was very Christ consciousness, right? Being aware and just allowing yourself to live in the moment. With other people, but on the other hand, when you get into your head, which is common because we are human. For me, what I found that is really helpful is just always asking why what is the why behind what I'm doing?

What is the why behind why I'm posting? Am I posting this right now? Because I need people, I need to be seen because I need to say something that's important. You know that I'm. Projecting it to one person that I hope might read it, or am I posting because from my heart, I can't keep this in, or or it's just fucking fun, or, and that's okay too.

And to the dancing part that really resonated with me because I really struggled, especially as a woman and getting older, like exercise. And I've had a long history of. issues. I had to let go. The Peloton really me up because I was like, why am I getting on the Peloton? Oh, I'm getting on so I can beat someone on the leaderboard.

I'm getting on. So more so my, the people who follow me can see what, how many times I've done it. I'm getting on so I can brag to people that I did the Peloton today. So I had to step away from the Peloton because I wasn't doing it for my health. I was doing it for these external things and I wasn't dancing anymore.

I was, there had nothing to do with dancing. And. When, and even to your point with dancing, if I go to a full moon circle or some sort of thing, if I feel like I'm going, because I want to tell people I'm going, I don't go because my why is up here. And I just, I'm like, girl, you're not there.

And I just don't do it. 

[00:40:02] Mike: Man. I love that. Something came to me when you were talking about the matrix that I just want to share real quick. Cause you watch the matrix, it's been a while since I've seen the movie and I haven't seen the new one yet, but And the first one, you don't bother.

Yeah. 

Okay. I won't then, the red pill, blue pill thing. And you're like, we'll take the red pill. So you have a couple options, right? You can take the blue pill and forget all about it and go and just live in the matrix and forget that you are outside of it. And the matrix is just a story and just a fabrication.

You can take the red pill and then go get out of the matrix and then fight against it and live on a shitty spaceship and eat gruel every day. Or you can take the red pill. Get unlocked a little bit and be like, Oh, wait, I want to go back and live in the matrix. I know it's like a creation or whatever, but there's beautiful stories there and humans to connect with and parties to go to.

delicious things to eat. And, occasionally now I can little, I can bend a spoon when I want to with my mind because I've got Jedi powers. Hell yeah, dude. And maybe I think that's the one I want to do. 

[00:41:03] Tracey Tee: It's the purple pill. You take the purple pill. Yes. 

[00:41:06] Doug: Because the thing that I, I am a fan of the Matrix series and I have seen the new Matrix twice because I saw it the first time and I was like, okay, that sucked.

Let me watch it again just to make sure, but here's the, here's what I would love for the Matrix to have explored. What if you take the red pill? And there's always another fucking red pill. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:41:30] Tracey Tee: That's the truth. 

[00:41:31] Doug: Let's keep going down this little rabbit hole. It's turtles all the way down.

It's red pills all the way down. And so then it just becomes this thing where the red pill or the blue pill or the purple pill, it's all a fucking placebo. Who cares what color the pill is because it's all a construct of The combination of our mind and see, here's the thing, Tracey, I fall very easily into the concept of solipsism, which is I, the only thing I know is that I exist and the rest of you, God knows what you're up to.

God knows who you really, what you really are, right? Are you mirrors of me? Are you real? I don't know, but who cares? That's the point. Who cares? Because whatever the two of you are, I'm having the time of my life right now I'm having the time of my life. So whether it was, I took a red pill, I took a blue pill, I took a purple pill, I took another red pill, then I combined it with a blue pill and I washed it down with three pills at once.

Who fucking cares? It doesn't matter because it's about that experience of, I don't need to find the meaning of life, I need to find the living of life, I need to find the being. I'm going to completely change the subject because we've talked about it a couple of times with journeys and trips. And I know that you, I know that you do a whole thing on microdosing, which I'm.

Open to going back and forth on where I land on microdosing, how did you find, you talked about your 40th birthday and deciding Hey, there's, what's the next decade going to look like? What's the rest of my life going to look like? What brought you to plant medicine and what, how did that happen?

What was your what was your entry, your gateway into it? What was that like? Is that okay? Was that too abrupt of a, no, I think it's perfect. 

[00:43:16] Tracey Tee: I was like, this conversation is going to be eight hours long if we keep going down the pill conversation. So I think it 

[00:43:21] Doug: could be, I'm 

[00:43:23] Tracey Tee: Into it.

Cause I have so many questions for you, but what brought that, what, okay. I think I was always. It's called to something bigger. And I can't pinpoint it exactly. There were inkling, like I had been reading about ayahuasca way before it got trendy. I don't know how I came around. It just stumbled in my path I don't know many years ago.

And I just always found it. Fascinating. And it really resonated with me. Like the idea of being in nature in the jungle, you're working with original peoples, like all of it just made a lot of sense to me. But the old Tracey was like, there's no way in hell you're ever going to do that. Like ever. So I just put it out of my mind and.

All my friends, a lot, not all my friends, but a lot of my friends have done all the things and I always hear the stories and I was always like that's not me either. I'm, I was a big drinker for most of my life and I still drink. Not nearly as much, but weed. I live in Denver.

I take it to sleep. It's never really resonated. So there's something, there's just always something niggling in my head. And then really I read Michael Pollan's book mostly because I like die for him. I've read everything he's ever written. I've just been a fan of, Omnivore's Dilemma, frankly, was one of the most pivotal books in my life.

Like it changed everything for me. So I was excited to read his book and it just, I just got it. I just was like, this, all of the, all of this that they're talking about is sounds great. But then I was still like that I, there's no way I could do that. And so I put the book down. I read it the minute it was released, told all my friends and family about it.

And they all looked at me like I was crazy years past. And then. Frankly, my best friend invited me finally in 2020 to go like with a bunch of girls to a lake and go camping and do shrooms. And I was, I had, I was still like toying with the idea of plant medicine. And I was like this is a great group of women.

It's a perfect environment. I got to try it. And when 

[00:45:27] Mike: in 2020? 

[00:45:29] Tracey Tee: July. 

[00:45:30] Mike: Oh, okay. Our ayahuasca was in June. I was wondering. Okay. 

[00:45:34] Tracey Tee: And in June, like was when I had like my official, like spiritual awakening. Like I wrote it in my journal. I thought I was going to float out of this house and I crawled over to my journal while my husband and my daughter were in the kitchen cleaning up.

And I wrote, I'm either on the verge of a spiritual awakening or I'm about to lose my mind. And I didn't even know, I didn't even know what the word spiritual awakening was. Like I didn't, I wrote things I didn't know of. And I would 

[00:46:00] Mike: say that awakening and psychosis are very close to the same thing. Oh, for 

[00:46:05] Tracey Tee: sure.

So then I did. So when I went to the lake to do the shrooms, I thought if this feels right, Maybe there's something here. And it was beautiful. Like I'm just one of those people that takes mushrooms and I go, it's galactic every time. And I saw all the symbols and I saw the fourth dimension and I just understood the connectedness and I laid on the beach and stared at the sky.

And I was like, Or has this been all my life? And, but then for some reason, microdosing just really resonated with me. And I actually happened to just find a course. It came through my LinkedIn feed of all things. And it was created by Casey Garrett, who does microdosing for healing. And it was created by a woman and she was going to teach you about all the things.

And it just made sense. And I'm very like, I'm a learner. So I liked that it was a course and there was stuff to read. And I just signed up. And the minute I started, it was like I was just, I'm just here. I'm just made to take mushrooms. Like it's and so from there I went through her course and.

the changes were just so profound through the whole thing. When we would get on calls and stuff, I was, I loved every minute of it. The only thing that was in the back of my head again was this experience is just so different for moms. And I'm doing this in between. drop off and car line and cooking dinner and going to the grocery store and running a company.

And, my healing is done in segments. I don't get to go to Peru for two and a half weeks. It's not very responsible for me to do that as a little kid. Or 

[00:47:42] Mike: even two and a half years. I know it's people who just go and, yeah. 

[00:47:46] Tracey Tee: I can't even go to Bali. I would love to do all those things.

It's just not realistic for me right now. And it was just all churning. And but. With that, the streams just opened my head and then it wasn't until 2021, last summer, just around this time, actually, we were driving in the mountains. My daughter, my 18 year old niece, me and my husband, we were outside Aspen, Colorado on a Monday morning and we got We Nailed by a drunk driver and gotten a horrible car accident.

The car, it hit my side. I had the most injuries. We went through a guard rail, flew 30 feet in the air and landed in the ditch in the mountain and had to pull the girls out of the car. It was awful. But in the moment flying, like I felt the, I felt angels on our car, set it down. The EMTs were like.

What is this vehicle? How are you alive? Like nobody, we went through a guardrail 65, 70 miles an hour and we lived and we weren't even that injured. And I say that injured, it was not great. But that led me, that was another kind of like boom that was during my year of surrender that led me to desperately try to find a.

Therapist for my daughter because I was seeing the light go out behind her eyes. Questioning everything. You told me I was safe. Now I don't you said, and good luck finding a therapist for a child during these crazy times. People wouldn't even return my phone call. And I'm like, I was like my dad, she's not well, like I need, she needs to talk to someone.

And we ended up, and in that I was finding that. And I had been microdosing and I was finding that I was alchemizing all of this, these waves of fear and, replaying what happened. It was just releasing out of me and I knew it was the medicine that was helping me. And I, cause I was like, no mother could experience this.

And just not that I was okay, but I was okay. You know what I'm saying? And so anyway, we ended up finding a woman who. Could treat everyone in our family and she was a shaman and then I later found out that she's been like doing plant medicine. She was trained by Stan Groff doing holotropic breath work.

So she saw my daughter fixed her up immediately. And when she and I started talking It was just like instant energetic connection. And she instantly became my mentor. And a few months later is when I did my first journey. And so the whole thing brought me to now where literally to talking to you, this whole, it was all just a path.

And the journey was what really just opened me up, cracked me open from the inside out. And there's no looking back.

[00:50:38] Mike: No, you're on the road. Now you're on the path. 

[00:50:40] Tracey Tee: I'm on the path. There's no, and it's not, it hasn't even do with me. I'm just like doing what they tell me. 

[00:50:47] Doug: I hope. 

[00:50:49] Tracey Tee: Did I answer your question? 

[00:50:51] Doug: You did. The reason there's a pause is because Both of us are just taking that in for a second. 

[00:50:58] Mike: Yeah. And we know we can cut the pauses, maybe not.

We can keep them. Who knows? I like the pauses. I like the pauses, Seth. And if it's not too long, we'll just keep the pauses. Yeah, Seth, the pauses are okay. Keep the pauses in, Seth, motherfucker. I love Seth. Seth, you brilliant wizard, just keep the fucking 

[00:51:13] Doug: pauses in 

[00:51:13] Mike: there. By the way, Seth is a wizard who edits his podcast.

I figured that. Yeah. We love that. We love him to death. But it just speaks to this thing of and I feel like it ties into what we were talking about. We've been talking about the whole fucking time is that how much control do we really have of this thing, and you can say I don't believe in God and spirituality or whatever, but you have to believe that something, there are things that are, will happen outside of your control that will steer you in a direction that you never thought you would be in.

And, we talked about this, we did a manifesting episode a while back and just to repeat that here a little bit, it was like this thing of if you would have told me two years ago, so two years ago, we, I think we'd, maybe we recorded our first episode, Doug, we hadn't released it yet. So maybe two years and two months ago, what I what my life would be like in two years.

I couldn't have predicted any of it. And so we want to maintain, we tried it so hard to maintain this egoic sense of control that control our lives. And I love that, you were talking about surrender was that word you learned that year and it's not fucking easy. It sounds like that was, it was beating it out of you in a way.

And 

[00:52:28] Tracey Tee: I'm still bruised a year later, like I still have bruises. 

[00:52:32] Mike: So whether you call that God or whatever, there we humans feel like we can control the whole motherfucking universe. And we can't even control our own lives. 

[00:52:42] Doug: Mike, I would maybe add to what you're saying. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I would add to what you're saying that whether we call it God or chaos, which might be diametrically opposed in the traditional sense, It's that same concept, right?

Of if I could just control this, there's just, there's one little thing and that gets into manifestation, Mike, where she's like, Oh, this I want a thing or I'm drawn toward a thing. And I just want to control this one little thing and that will make me feel okay. Then, but then that surrender thing comes in and it's okay, you can try to manifest shit and you can try to have some sense of control and you can try to have some sense of this is the path my life is going on and I'm choosing this and I'm choosing that and I'm on this adventure. All that goes out the window when you're sideswiped by a drunk driver and flying 30 feet through the air, right?

It's all, it all goes away. It's complete chaos. And that's why I love that your word for 21 was surrender. Because you can't, there's just nothing that you can do. We get this illusion of control of okay, I wake up at 6 30 and I do this practice. And then I have this cup of coffee and then my day goes accordingly.

I get in contact with my own self and then my day goes accordingly. But you, but the chaos that exists is no matter how strong of a witch or a warlock or a wizard or a magical being or an angel that you are, When that drunk driver hits you, it comes out of nowhere and there's no sense of control whatsoever.

And that's why I love that you followed up surrender with this year being courage because it's like they are very directly related, right? That surrender probably is quite a courageous path to walk anyway, because it's just oh shit, now what? Yeah, it sucks. But then following it up with courage is here's what.

And I can stand in my own, I can stand in my own power. I can stand in holy places. I can be no matter what direction the wind is blowing, no matter what lack of control exists. When, no matter what chaos exists, I can stand in it and have courage and be okay. And roll with it. Am I totally off here?

Or is this right along the line of, 

[00:55:05] Tracey Tee: it's you're out. You can stand in the chaos, but I would just offer in that moment we got hit. Did it all actually go away or did it all come crashing down on us? It's all a perspective shift, like I, And that is, for me, that's where manifestation, when you figure that out, and I would never ever in a million years say I'm an expert manifester.

I don't know if I am or if I'm not, but what I do understand is that I have a choice. I have a choice to be angry, to be sad, to be a victim, to live in that, or I have a choice to ask why and what was the why of that moment. And it was different for me. It was different for my husband. It was different for my 10 year old daughter.

That why will serve us for the rest of our life. If we just surrender to being open to asking the question. And when you allow the, why the chaos is just a grand adventure, it's all just a grand adventure. And isn't that beautiful to say, I get a good, I get to get up and I get to have my coffee or my cacao and I get to microdose and I get to go to work and I get to wonder.

Am I going to make it to the end of the day? No idea. It could all end in a minute, but isn't that amazing? I get to find that out. And when you stop battling the world and saying, Oh, it's not the way I want it. And instead you just say, why not? Or. What is this lesson? Or why am I doing this? It all just becomes so much more beautiful.

It's delightful. 

[00:56:48] Mike: Reminds me of you guys have seen hook, right? That movie scene. What hook? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Death. Death is the only adventure when you're talking about yeah, I might die tonight. It might be over. That's just the start of a new, you're going to be dead. And who knows what realm or wherever you're going to be, even if the realm is like nothing, I don't know.

[00:57:09] Tracey Tee: Who's to say I didn't die in that ditch? Honestly, how do I know? It wasn't great. And I, I don't know. I don't know if I'm here or there. I think I'm alive, but it doesn't matter. It just, Ram Dass says. It's like taking off an old death is like taking off a tight shoe.

It's just a relief from to another moment where you're shoeless. It's all beautiful. 

[00:57:32] Mike: And we feel that in the mini deaths we have every day or along the way or the major deaths, we're not always, maybe our physical body's dying, but we're having deaths all the time. And you talked about it when you were saying now you're more surrendered, I guess to crying in a puddle on the floor.

When you're having that death and mourning that process and moving through it and the courage to you're on this path to take some steps forward because now you're on it. And we've always been on it, but now you're recognizing you're on this journey and engaging in the chaos. And being like, I am here for it.

I'm here to see what's around the bend. It's a dragon or a beautiful princess or whatever happens around the bend. I'm in it, I don't know. 

[00:58:22] Tracey Tee: I just got my first tattoo this weekend. What? 

[00:58:25] Doug: Oh, let's see it girl. Come on now. I've got my 

[00:58:27] Tracey Tee: foot, so I don't think I can figure out how to show it to you, but it says free in the midst of all things, free in the midst of fear.

Hell yeah. That you are free. In that chaos, in that vortex, in that flying car, in that fight, in that questioning, you are still free. And I am not, I've screwed up constantly. And I'm scared. I am scared constantly. And I, you go through these waves and these mini deaths, like you said, and they suck, those hard days and you feel it all.

And I make mistakes. And then I beat myself up for that. I think the only thing you can do is just stay, know that you are free and that it's not a linear road and it's not a, it's a never ending road, so you're not going to get cut off. 

[00:59:18] Doug: Have you two seen everything everywhere all at once?

No, I need to. 

[00:59:24] Mike: So I, listen to this. I have watched the beginning three times. So I started watching it. Then my wife comes in. I'm 45 minutes in. My wife comes in. She's will you restart it for me? Yeah, let's restart it. Get like an hour in. And then last night we were about to finish it. And then, my daughter is like, Hey, I want to watch this. So we restarted it again. I am now like an hour at, but I'm getting to a part which Doug, this was speaking to my dark trip. It's the same thing. It's like the meaning, like in that trip, I was feeling like everything was meaningless. Yeah. It was that thing of Oh, 

I like that.

Yeah. Where it's like, Oh wait, so I'm going to wake up from this life and go into another one. Or I can time travel to different places and this. And it's what's the fucking point? Oh, it's the worst. I'm at that point in the movie right now where it's like, what's the fucking point.

And they're the rocks sitting on the, and I'm like, yeah. 

[01:00:19] Doug: Yeah, 

[01:00:20] Mike: it's a 

[01:00:20] Doug: movie I need right now. I feel like we're talking about it tonight. Honestly that's what I'm feeling. Cause the every tiny little thing that we do maybe creates this split where You know, Tracey, I started going down a whole mental rabbit hole when you were like, maybe I did die in that car accident.

And I was like, yeah, maybe like 10, 000 versions of you died in that car accident. 

[01:00:44] Tracey Tee: There's no reason to believe that they didn't. 

[01:00:47] Doug: You know what I mean? And there's 10, 000 versions of all your loved ones dealing with it in a different way. We just so happened to be in the version where you survived it with nary a scratch or maybe a little bit of a scratch, but.

But still feeling good and getting tattoos and rocking hard. But who was driving? You said your husband was driving. Had he not slowed down a bit to take a Twizzler or to turn and say a thing to you, or the cruise control was weird and someone was pulling up on the left hand lane and all of those little things, there's a billion that happened every single day.

That create new realities for us and we just so happen to be here consciously talking about this reality that we're in and God knows how many there are and it's like when everything is so determined by fate. Then that gives a, that almost is, it has the opposite effect where it frees us up to be anything to be whatever we want and to simply exist in the shitty moments and exist in the tough days and the mini deaths as you, as I think Mike, you called it mini deaths, right?

That we experienced every day. It's that which remains is what I'm doing right now. That's all I got. That's all I can tap into right now. And so why not roll it? I did. Sorry, go ahead. I'm just. 

[01:02:18] Tracey Tee: That's what allows you to dance, to bring it back to what you said that was so beautiful.

If you realize that then it doesn't matter where you are or who you with or what you're wearing or how it's going. You are fucking dancing because it's. You are alive and it's beauty. And you were just, you were feeling every molecule of air against your skin and you are soaking it up. And that is the why, and you are not in your head.

And if that's the gift of remembering that you get to do that. And then none of it matters. It doesn't even matter. 

[01:03:00] Mike: Yeah. I've had a hard cry that smells as good as an orgasm before. 

Oh God. Yeah. 

Yeah. It's getting that cry out. Tracey, holy shit. Like I think this new podcast is we just bring Tracey on and she just, 

[01:03:14] Tracey Tee: I love you guys.

[01:03:16] Doug: Tracey, you might just be replacing my, what I just heard is. Maybe you're replacing me and I'm being sunsetted. Like maybe I'm being put out to pasture here. 

[01:03:24] Tracey Tee: No. 

[01:03:24] Doug: Which I know, which by the way, I agree with.

[01:03:31] Tracey Tee: No, I think this is, but this is the synergy and the beauty of being open with with. beautiful humans. And, Zach Bush talks about it all the time. All the great philosophers, when you, again, it just comes down to openness and love. And when you can just allow yourself to get over yourself, you don't actually need shrooms or weed or booze.

You can just talk with humans that allow you to. Question the red or the blue pill. And from that comes the beauty, and we just have to get over ourselves to do it. And so thank you for allowing me, I don't often get to have conversations like this with people either.

It's, but that these are the gifts, these are the gifts that God gives us to remind us that we need to stick around and not be so bitter all the time. 

[01:04:20] Doug: God, hell yeah. Hold up. We sound like we're wrapping up, but first of all, I need to get into some feels like, so I know you're, I was just 

[01:04:28] Mike: giving a compliment because I'm loving 

[01:04:29] Doug: this 

[01:04:29] Mike: conversation.

[01:04:31] Doug: I'm loving this. So Tracey, can we talk microdosing? So before we started recording the three of us were talking about maybe, or maybe not getting like philosophical about what microdosing is, what it does and the impact that it has. What has been your experience with It, that sounded like the first real question that I've asked tonight.

What has been your experience with micro dosing? 

[01:04:53] Tracey Tee: Very 3d of you. My experience with micro dosing, I think we've discussed because if you reflect back on everything I said, the through line in that is that I've been on sub perceptual doses of psilocybin the whole time. So for me and why I think It's my path.

I think that for America, which is where I live and the culture, this is the culture that I know. We, what I'm coming to realize is that we have not been raised in any great reverence for anything really sacred or holy, even in the churches that you guys and I was raised in. It's The dogma, but there's no grit to it, right?

There's no. And so light, unlike original cultures who grew up with plant medicine, who allow themselves, who did have rituals, and there's just something powerful and gathering around the fire and wailing and chanting. I'm seeing now what a disservice we've done to ourselves by eliminating that from our lives, because we are just.

So square. And so I believe for me, I think that starting plant medicine with microdosing, especially as mothers, it allows you to create a relationship with. These little beings of light and understand the sacredness and holiness of it in a slow and steady way. That isn't fast and furious, like America likes to do bigger, better, stronger, go more grams, bigger journey, go to, go to Peru, go to Costa Rica, blow your brains out, whatever, like instead let's take it slow.

Let's take a minute to actually just watch the transformation and create a relationship. Because I do think You create a relationship with mushrooms. And when, once that is established and you've just, you've at least given some reverence to it or understood that maybe there's something more, it's not just a pill, like allopathic medicine.

Then I think you can step into a journey and fully embrace the impact of it. But. My personal opinion and I, lots of people disagree with me, but for me, I don't think a lot of us are ready to just dive into a big journey and truly have. the best, the most profound experience that we could because we don't even understand the technology that we're working with.

And so that's where I think microdosing bridges that gap, and it walks you over that bridge so that when you drink that disgusting tea and you lay back down and you're with your guide. You are ready to like, let it all happen. So that's why micro dosing for me. And then I think also in this world, I think the other side of that is I feel very strongly that we need to start reprogramming ourselves from the allopathic medicine sort of training that we've all been told, which is one pill, same pill for every person.

Everybody takes the same dose. You do it every day at the same time. There's no connection to it. And instead, especially for mothers. What is so beautiful about microdosing is you start to feel your body come online and you start to understand where your aches and pains are when you're tired.

Like it the mushrooms tell you where you need to heal and it takes time to listen to that. But then once you get through that phase, Then you start to listen to your body and your intuition comes online and you start to take your life back and you start to have more control and learn that you can control that you're in charge, that you know what's best for you and learning that and learning to trust yourself.

Maybe I don't want to do the Stamets protocol or the Fadiman protocol. Like maybe every other day is best for me. Maybe seven days a week is best for me, right now in this and that kind of confidence. In yourself and in the medicine, I just think is irreplaceable. And then from there, go do those journeys, go to the jungle, do it all.

But you've got that groundwork laid for you. 

[01:09:08] Mike: I love how it just even reframes, like you were talking, what was the word you use? I've never heard that word before allopathic. 

[01:09:13] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Just like Western medicine. Just that. Yeah. Just that. Yeah. 

[01:09:17] Mike: I didn't have a term for that. Now I do. I'm glad I do now.

Because a question we get asked a lot is okay for someone starting out, they say, okay what's the dosage. And do I need to do booster doses every once in a while? They're very thinking of it very much. Like, how do I get rid of my symptoms and When, that question sounds so foreign to me right now.

The first time I heard it after we started the podcast, it was like, what? Oh, okay. I it's, it was hard for me to get back into that mindset of how I thought about mushrooms before I took that. Yeah. And so it, it reframes your mind and stuff. And I'm love how you talked about just like listening to your body.

Usually what happens when the point of microdosing is it's happening like underneath the surface. So you're not tripping. You're not feeling high, but the thing I usually feel is Oh shit, I need to stretch right now. That's what I guess. 

[01:10:09] Tracey Tee: I don't want this candy bar. I want an orange.

It's it's fast that you like feel it, 

[01:10:14] Mike: yeah. And I've needed to stretch the whole fucking day, but it's finally, it kicks in. It's Oh wait, no. Okay. Yeah. And then I stretch and I feel good. Yeah. 

[01:10:24] Tracey Tee: Cause your body tells you, you just got to listen. Yeah. So anyway, that's my philosophy.

Even my mentor would, she thinks that starting with the big journey and doing that bus through the wall, it's her philosophy. And I get that too. But I do think in my niche and I'm here to serve mothers. I've been in the mom space for 10 years. I'm a mom myself. I know moms and I know busy modern 2022 moms very well.

And some of that's just not realistic. And there's a lot of fear in our culture right now. There's a lot of skepticism. There's a lot of dogma. There's a lot of programming. And so let's just go low and start slow. And. Let's start with microdosing and let's watch yourself transform to a place where you can step into that circle and go for it.

And I just, I think that's for me, I think for mothers, that's my recommendation, 

[01:11:24] Doug: man. I think this might be the first episode I asked my wife to listen to. I was thinking the same thing, Doug. I was like, 

[01:11:31] Mike: the same thing. Yeah. 

[01:11:32] Doug: Like my wife. Who I love infinity doesn't give a shit about the podcast.

And she's also just I don't like, like one of the big things is I'm always like, Hey, let's do a journey. Let's do a journey together, and once in a while she'll do it with me. But most of the time she's no, we get, I can't release, I can't let go because I got to worry about our three children, whereas I'm just like, they'll be fine.

And I'm just listening to you speak and I'm like, wow, have I ever tried to actually consider it from what she's going through what she's trying to like balance what she's trying to navigate and it's really opening something up in me where I've always just been like, oh, I wish we could connect on this thing.

We connect on so many things, but this is my favorite thing. I wish we could connect on it and I'm just, I'm hearing you. I'm hearing you all the way in. Thank you for that. That's fucking cool. Yeah. 

[01:12:24] Tracey Tee: Yeah. And also it may just not be her thing, it doesn't have to be everyone's thing.

Again, there's a million ways up the mountain, but inside that, when you can, and if your wife can get to a place where she can release, and I do want that for mothers, I want moms to feel like, They can go away for a weekend and do deep healing. And I want moms to feel like they can trust women again and be in a community and get it out there and work through their problems in real time with other women, not a guru, not even a therapist.

I'm none of those things. It's each it's the group that does the work. But when you get to that point, then the freedom, that's where the freedom comes. And then we're raising children. Not to be like that. So we're raising, we're showing by example, and then we're telling our children that they're this life that I left or I'm trying to leave behind isn't for you that you can allow yourself.

You can do psychedelics and be a parent. And the ripple effect that I see in the future is, oh gosh, it's and you guys see it. It's amazing, but we gotta, we just gotta take baby steps a little bit, it's, and again, these the young single people, the older retired people go to the jungle, go to Bali do all of that.

I can't do it right now. And I've just got one kid and I can't do it. So what else can I do? I can do this. And I can take a few Saturdays a year and I can ship her off to a friend's or to the grandparents. So I can give myself some space to integrate and not feel guilty about it for a second, because I'm going to come out the other side, just being a better mom, wife.

And that's just icing on the cake. What I'm really coming out is I'm coming out as the best version of me, and I'm finally. Yeah. Freaking happy. 

[01:14:16] Mike: Yeah. Gosh, I love that. So speaking of that, what with what are some of the things you offer with more moms on mushrooms?

Like what will they expect to see when they find you? 

[01:14:29] Tracey Tee: Yeah. So it's right now there's three courses that kind of go up in, in deepness, the first course, they're all three months nine months together, which is time it takes to grow a baby. Didn't even plan that one. And the first course is in, this came to me in meditation and I was like, Oh, come on.

So will, I don't want to do it. But it actually follows the chakras because it came to me that microdosing in particular, it really is a journey through the chakras, right? Like you come at the root, you've got, you're either feeling ungrounded, you're feeling fearful, you feeling like you need change, you don't feel stable.

You're skeptical about the medicine, all these things. That's all root stuff. You take that and then it just works its way up. So the lessons work their way up through until you get to the crown, the third eye and the crown. And I do think when you've worked through and opened up these portals, not cleared, I'm not healed them.

We're just, and it's also good, like again, back to American culture. What I didn't want was to say, okay, you're going to take this capsule or whatever. And then, people take it and they sit back and they're like why isn't my life? Why is my life different? And so we can take two weeks and we can focus on just this one part of us.

And then we can focus on this next part of us. And then you start to connect the dots a little bit. And by the time you get up to the heart, people are starting to figure stuff out on their own. And that's the half of the first course. And then the second half of it is just a bunch of support materials, just answering questions, just go to old fashion.

If you want to go big and deep and you want to read papers and science and listen to podcasts and all the things like I've got all that, I've got information about functional mushrooms, just like a primer, that's all self guided. And then the second course we, it's completely different and we dive into archetypes and really study different archetypes and dig through that and how it relates to that and how the mushrooms are bringing up these different archetypes.

And then third course is, has yet to be started because my OG group is in the middle of the second course. But the third course, my hope is that I'm out of the picture completely and it's. It's three months. We gather every other week for each course. So six sessions of 90 minutes and my hope is to bring in elders.

And crone mothers to come in and tell their stories and it's just an exchange of wisdom. And that is the most important thing for me is that we learn from our elders. We learn from our original peoples and we, or just crones in, in our society that just their voices aren't heard that have experience with the medicine and have lessons to teach us moms.

And so that's what the third course will be. And so yeah, that's the courses. And then we have kind of communities. And I'm just working on rolling out kind of some other offerings that will probably be in the fall for people who don't want to necessarily do a group thing, even though that's where I think the healing happens.

Some people have trauma from doing group work, or on their own path. So there'll be a self supported one and one on one options if that calls to you. And then I think I'm going to be rolling out like a low level membership for women who like how I was five years ago, like it, interested, tiptoeing around it, but just need to know more.

So I want to create a community where moms can just dip their toes, learn, ask questions. And when they're ready. I've got everything you need. So that's it. 

[01:18:01] Doug: Oh, so what, so how do people track you down? What's the best way to participate, get involved, find you. How do they do that? 

[01:18:08] Tracey Tee: Sure.

Just go to moms on mushrooms. com. That's got everything that you'll need. I'm on Instagram begrudgingly as I think I hinted social media. It doesn't. Horribly resonate with me lately. I think because of my own ego and shadow. So I'm on there, but it's not my main thing, but that's moms on mushrooms official.

And that's it. You'll find me one of those places. And it's just me. So email me or DM me. 

[01:18:36] Mike: One of the things we have in common too, not just the name, but there's a lot of moms in Mormonism 

and a lot of moms who 

became moms before they became at age of 20, 21. Yeah. Before they 

[01:18:49] Doug: were adult women, they were moms.

[01:18:51] Mike: Yeah. And just listen to your courses. I was getting chills because it's clearly, I would say mushroom inspired courses. You know what I mean? Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. In a way that's I think you're guiding them in such a beautiful, organic, inspired way. It's if you want to not only just like lean into plant medicine and healing and, that part, but if you want to find your path almost right and that path is your center we're talking about it's you it's in within you it's not within anyone else it's not within a tarot card thing it's not within a new dogma no it's within you know the tarot cards might show that within you and these paths might but it's within your chakras it's within yourself so you teach them to get in touch with their body first you And then go into, more medicine stuff and then, okay now that you're in the centered space.

Now you can listen to the wisdom of our elders without following them dogmatically either, cause now you're connected to yourself except their wisdom and their life path and see where their paths may have aligned with yours and where they don't. 

[01:19:58] Tracey Tee: Yeah. Take what you want and leave the rest behind.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's hard. This space is blowing up and it's exciting to watch and we're all involved in our own way, but I don't need to add more information to the mix. There's plenty out there and there's plenty of content creators that are killing it. And there's plenty of people, doing the science stuff or that know how to grow the show.

Go find that educate yourself. It's all it's amazing for me. It's the focus so that you that like you just you said it so correctly find your center, find this place back this space, this container and then go out and live your life, 

[01:20:35] Mike: oh my God. And the one thing you can offer.

That none of them can, and is that community of doing it with other moms? Yes. 

[01:20:43] Tracey Tee: No, exactly right. 

[01:20:44] Mike: People who speak your language, who know what you're going through, who know your struggles, who know all of it, and so it's like you're doing it with a community of people that are in your same boat and have a shared experience.

[01:20:56] Tracey Tee: Yep, exactly. That's exactly it. That's it. I'm just here for the moms. In the shoes, 

[01:21:03] Mike: Tracey, I fucking love the name

[01:21:08] Doug: Tracey. I think we might be done recording, but I want to hang out with I go to Denver every once in a while for work. Can we go get a beer or something like 

[01:21:16] Tracey Tee: that? Let's come over. Okay. Here's the last 

[01:21:19] Mike: question then. What has the better snow Denver or Salt Lake City? 

[01:21:23] Tracey Tee: Oh gosh, I love Salt Lake City so much.

That's a really good question. Here's a little tidbit. I don't ski and I'm a Colorado native. But there hasn't been a lot of snow in Colorado. There is, but not like how I grew up. So I don't know. Maybe it's Utah. 

[01:21:37] Mike: Do you, what about Nuggets versus Jazz? Who do you hate? 

[01:21:40] Tracey Tee: I hate basketball.

[01:21:42] Mike: Oh girl. Now we got beef. 

[01:21:45] Tracey Tee: I like baseball. I like the Colorado Rockies. 

[01:21:48] Mike: Oh, go Rockies. That means if you don't want to care about basketball, it means you can just be a jazz fan. 

[01:21:52] Tracey Tee: Okay, that's fine. Do I have to go to the games? 

[01:21:56] Doug: No, 

[01:21:57] Tracey Tee: we do have the best. We do have the best concert venue on the planet though.

Red Rocks. Red Rock 

[01:22:02] Doug: is the bet. Honestly, you are right about that. You want 

[01:22:05] Tracey Tee: to talk about like a holy place? Like that. You just walk up there. It's like going to church. So yeah, I do have that. 

[01:22:12] Mike: All right. The three of us are going to be at Red Rock. I'm going to manifest. I'm manifesting this right now. The three of us are going to be in Red Rock.

Red Rock. At a place, at a concert together. 

[01:22:21] Tracey Tee: Yes please, that sounds delightful. 

[01:22:23] Mike: I'm all in. I'm choosing that path of the multiverse jumping thing or whatever. We're there. I'm feeling it right now. It's great. 

[01:22:31] Doug: Yeah, we're experiencing everything everywhere all at once, dude. 

[01:22:34] Tracey Tee: And I'm already dead so I can easily go.

Yeah, you can do whatever 

[01:22:38] Doug: you want. Dude, you can go wherever.

[01:22:44] MoM Podcast: Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to Mormons on Mushrooms podcast. We have so much fun recording it. And if you love it, we would absolutely love it if you could leave a review on wherever you get your podcasts. podcast. It would really help our visibility. So more people can listen to it and be enlightened and hear our crazy stories.

So thanks again for tuning in.